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"The source of the government's authority is 'the consent of the governed.' ..." - Ayn Rand

Posted by awebb 8 years, 10 months ago to Pics
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Quote of the Day:

"The source of the government's authority is 'the consent of the governed.' This means that the government is not the ruler, but the servant or agent of the citizens... " - Ayn Rand


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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 8 years, 10 months ago
    Of course the government has seized way more power over every aspect of life than the people ever gave any sort of explicit consent to. She was speaking of ideal government not this out of control monster that is consuming us, itself and our future.
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    • Posted by Maritimus 8 years, 10 months ago
      Hello, S,

      I think that if you read carefully, Ayn Rand being a master at choosing her words, you will notice that the consent gives government only the authority, i.e. the legitimacy, not the power. The source of the power and of the limits to that power is the Constitution and the laws enacted under it. Some call it a social contract, but I do not like the term now because it has been grossly abused by propagandists. If people do not pay attention, out of disinterest or out of ignorance (both, in my mind, illustrations of incompetence as citizens) they get the government that they deserve.
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      • Posted by Ranter 8 years, 10 months ago
        The problem is that WE also get the government that THEY deserve.
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        • Posted by Maritimus 8 years, 10 months ago
          Hello, Ranter,

          The discussion would require essay-length or book-length writing. Fat chance!

          Instead, just brief highlights. Humans are rational animals, each a unique individual, unrepeatable and unlike any predecessors. Humans are also social animals. The group, the tribe or the nation are essential to the survival of the individuals. That sets up a situation where individuals with strengths in various traits become leaders, a necessary ingredient of the reality of human living. The balancing act that this makes necessary requires a setup that is realistic, functional and moral. Our Founding Fathers produced the best setup of that kind in the history of mankind. In the 200+ years since, the conditions and the development have changed in many ways. Among the changes was the rise of Marxist ideology. It has spread as a plague of sorts and, under variety of labels attempting to increase the appeal and disguise its nature, poisoned many minds, analogous to cancer. The adherents fail to see that it is an Utopia, contrary to human nature. They wish to change the human nature, speaking of "new man", "superman" or some such dream. In my opinion, in our lifetime, there were only two "potuses" [Or is it "poti"? Not "potty" for sure ;-)] who displayed, even while imperfect for sure, a decent combination of realistic, functioning, honest and courageous leadership: Truman and Reagan. I do not think that it is likely that the US will remain forever the best country for thriving and advancement of humans. Somewhere, some group of dedicated thinkers and leaders will come up with a different Constitution, more resilient to the corrupting degradations slowly destroying the foundation of our country. Knowing that I aspire to be an Objectivist, you know in which direction I would like to push.

          There is much more that can be said about all this and I do not pretend to know enough to do the job even modestly well.

          When you lament the divergence between WE and THEY, to me, you illustrate the evils of divisiveness. The balance between collective, individual and leader cannot be perfect, but we ought to be able to come very close to optimal. The key is, in my opinion, to achieve, through thorough and unbiased education, the best possible competency of each and every citizen.

          Stay well!

          Sincerely,
          Maritimus
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          • Posted by Ranter 8 years, 10 months ago
            I was distinguishing between "We" (the producers) and "They" (the takers/moochers) -- the same distinction made by Ayn Rand. And yes, Marxist ideas are at the root of the current division. The idea that someone else's need, however real, places an obligation on me, is an idea that Ayn Rand would have fought against. An individual can survive quite well without the group, at least until the individual grows old, sick, or otherwise infirm. An individual can survive in the wilderness. The species, however, cannot. The species needs the group in order to achieve procreation and continuation. The balance between collective, individual and leader was best defined under the Constitution (except for the issue of slavery, which was resolved later), and the Constitution set up a government of a sort of aristocracy (landowners, people who could afford to give time to governing with little to no compensation). We have departed from that sort of government to a different sort of aristocracy -- one of greed and power, in which one can become wealthy from the "job" of governing. Therein lie many of our problems. The more democratic we become, the less our government is actually able to govern effectively.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
    I think her comment is correct, but I have some issues with how one can NOT consent when they are pointing guns at you. They would simply crush me in the USA if I didnt do what our government demanded, so am I consenting?
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  • Posted by Ranter 8 years, 10 months ago
    We are experiencing the downside of democracy -- the tyranny of the majority. The advantage of democracy is that the majority of the people elect a government that serves their interests. The disadvantage of democracy is that the majority of the people elect a government that serves their interests. The majority have voted to take the money of the producers and give it to the takers.
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 10 months ago
    unfortunately the governed in today's world or the majority of them don't know that they have given up their freedom to the government until the welfare checks stop arriving. greece is a wonderful example.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 8 years, 10 months ago
    This quote has always concerned me. What were Rand's views on secession? If the consent is withdrawn does the government"s
    claim to legitimacy evaporate? And what of the argument (made by Spooner) that the government has no authority as to people who never consented because they were not around when the government was created? Do we give implied consent to an existing government simply because we are not in open revolt? Thoughts please.
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    • Posted by tdechaine 8 years, 10 months ago
      The context was set when Rand said "The government of a free country derives its just powers from the consent of the governed."
      We consent with our votes; those who did not vote have no influence. To the extent a country is not free, one's consent is meaningless.
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  • Posted by tohar1 8 years, 10 months ago
    I just could not have said it any better myself! When will THEY learn?? Will it come to "Civil Disobedience" or will it need to go further than that. One can only hope the sheep wake up & elect some wise individuals to represent them, or I fear "We the People" will pay the price.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
    That's for people who believe in Citizens, Family, Country and government as employees. The concept that replaced divine right. It is not a left wing concept which holds the opposite which leaves out Democrats from the get go and recently Republicans who joined the dark side..
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 8 years, 10 months ago
    Who amongst We the Living have "consented"?
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    • Posted by Maritimus 8 years, 10 months ago
      Hello, DS,

      Those who stayed. Ayn Rand left. Her creation, Kira, unsuccessfully tried to leave also. Think of the meaning of that story.

      If you do not consent, your choices are: rebel, leave or endure. Your life has only a limited time span, particularly if your ambitions are parenting and productivity. Thus, the urgency of the decision. The America of the past was such a magnet for "leavers". It has changed to become, gradually more and more, a magnet for "free riders" among the "arrivers". Don't you think?
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      • Posted by DeanStriker 8 years, 10 months ago
        "If you do not consent, your choices are: rebel, leave or endure."
        Unfortunately, that doesn't ring completely correct. That we are constrained to the Choice Options effected by others kinda says it all, doesn't it?
        The choice to Rebel against our Rulers (those who make the "laws") can be downright dangerous. The choice to "Leave" is impractical for most folks, and anyway, where might one "escape" to in this world of the The Governed? Thus most will simply "Endure", which is a crappy Choice indeed, is it not?
        Thus our Consent is implied despite that most of the 7 billion people did not so consent, instead enduring the edicts of our ancestors but never ratified by we humans who deny their own sovereignty ant indeed, their very Right to Life.
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        • Posted by Ranter 8 years, 10 months ago
          The Atlas Shrugged model was for those who are producers to "leave" (shrug/go on strike) forcing the collapse of a society in which only the takers were participants. I think we all realize that doesn't actually work in the real world, as there is really no place to go. Sir John Templeton did go, however. Angered over the tax structure in this country, he renounced his citizenship, went (I think) to Bermuda, became a British National, and continued as an investor with his investment base in Bermuda and free from US taxation. Then he formed the Templeton Fund (for other investors to invest in) and the Templeton Foundation (where he parked his personal wealth, free from taxation). In effect, he shrugged, but only partially. He remained a participant in the economy. The true shrugger departs completely from the economy, going to a Galt's Gulch invisible to the rest of the world.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
            I just went to the book trading store. Someone had brought in a like new paperback 50th Edition. Since I had already spent 45 pesos on three other books they through AS in for no charge. Must be shamrock, rabbits foot and knock on formica day
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