List All Redeeming Values - If any A QUEST
In the discussion my use of 'best of'' socialism as cultural system and capitalism as a financial system caused some questions. Capitalism was much easier. If it's so bad why do socialists rely on it? Why has everything bad done by capitalists been condoned, demanded, and made legal by socialists. So the idea there is easy. Unfettered but controlled against the always present criminal class serves for a short explanation.
Then I turned to socialism....
QUESTION
List any and all redeeming values of Socialism including intended but not carried out changes affecting the nation - in any nation.
If not state, if you have some, ideas and perhaps a useful name for any and all of the needs that society should have and those which require some government.
I made it broad as possible as in casting a net rather than spearing a grouper.
Then I turned to socialism....
QUESTION
List any and all redeeming values of Socialism including intended but not carried out changes affecting the nation - in any nation.
If not state, if you have some, ideas and perhaps a useful name for any and all of the needs that society should have and those which require some government.
I made it broad as possible as in casting a net rather than spearing a grouper.
"The only proper purpose of a government is to protect man’s rights, which means: to protect him from physical violence. A proper government is only a policeman, acting as an agent of man’s self-defense, and, as such, may resort to force only against those who start the use of force. The only proper functions of a government are: the police, to protect you from criminals; the army, to protect you from foreign invaders; and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others, to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective law. But a government that initiates the employment of force against men who had forced no one, the employment of armed compulsion against disarmed victims, is a nightmare infernal machine designed to annihilate morality: such a government reverses its only moral purpose and switches from the role of protector to the role of man’s deadliest enemy, from the role of policeman to the role of a criminal vested with the right to the wielding of violence against victims deprived of the right of self-defense. Such a government substitutes for morality the following rule of social conduct: you may do whatever you please to your neighbor, provided your gang is bigger than his." Galt's Speech
And the steps needed to get from one to the other. What are you prepared to do?
I never fault them for that.
But your INTENT is not enough. You must honestly examine the RESULT of your action as well. (For example, policies meant to ease poverty usually entrench it.)
I grant they mean well. But I stop there.
(And I can never excuse their insatiable desire to tell ME what to do - while mindlessly chanting "FREEDOM"!)
by the way I ordered your books. I'm much about looking for answers in the reality of fiction versus the fiction of reality.
almost forgot your first point. I am seeking your cleverness having already confessed my own lack. I tend to be quite direct which is not necessarily easily recognized these days.
If not the best of Socialism how about the best of a small ''d'' democratically elected large ''R" Republic form of delegated government with specific rules rewritten in modern grammar and enforced. For the last part you have to add responsibilities of citizenship to rights of citizenship and learn to treat government workers as employees not like royalty.
I can't think of a single aspect of socialism that does not want to destroy personal freedom. It is a toxic as " a little poison " in you solar powered drinking water.
Cheers
Socialism is hardly a system of government who's ONLY purpose is to protect the individual. Yet that was the express purpose of the sentence. To define legitimate gov't as restricted to ONLY that purpose.
How do you figure to claim the concept for statist regimes?
The old triumverate of Church, State, King was changed way back in the 1920's and 1930's to Government, Big Business, and very specifically Union leaders - not members. Compliments of none other than Benito Mussolini when he formed the Fascist Party. In the US it became Democrats, Republicans, and Union Leaders with a lot of trading back and forth. I confirmed it by paying attention to what they said, what they promised and what they did and did not deliver.
The old triumverate of Church, State, King was changed way back in the 1920's and 1930's to Government, Big Business, and very specifically Union leaders - not members. Compliments of none other than Benito Mussolini when he formed the Fascist Party. In the US it became Democrats, Republicans, and Union Leaders with a lot of trading back and forth. I confirmed it by paying attention to what they said, what they promised and what they did and did not deliver.
"Zip Shit Over Infinity"
Hank Rangar
From the days when dapping was racial but now it's being pushed as more sanitary than hand shaking if just the knuckle punch is used.
Would you give LDD your grades, or offer to tutor him? The former makes no sense, so no-one would cooperate with it, yet somehow many buy into the redistribution of earnings. It's bizarre to me.
I would however be glad to teach anyone how to provide value to his fellow man, in a manner exchangeable for legal tender.
Once again, socialism? Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Churchill got it right.
Socialism can only be rightly defined as pure evil. And it's founding thoughts and the men that espoused them were also pure evil with evil intent.
The value of socialism is that it presents an alluring candyland vision of the future that is philosophically the antithesis of a rigid, class oriented, totalitarian culture. Lured by this vision, the masses of genuinely starving and exploited humans, who are under the thumb of the autocratic rulers, are willing to give their lives to overturn and totally destroy the despotic system in which they and their families have lived for generations.
This is what happened in Russia, China, and South America. (In China, the elite had been in control for literally thousands of years. The 'boss' level had changed, but the structure had not.) Of course, socialism cannot produce the paradise it promised because 'humans do not work that way'. (But that is a different topic.)
So: The Value of Socialism is that it is capable of painting a bright enough picture of a hypothetical future that it induces people to overturn and totally destroy a totalitarian regime.
Jan
Jan
Anyone up on those two countries and why they work or don't work? I can't say high taxes because when you add it all up ours are probably higher with all the embedded stuff. England on the other hand did not make it work.l
This is what is happening in California. We have a great economy here (if it were left alone) and thus we can support a large number of parasites without the 'pinch' being too tight.
Jan
1.
The only redeeming quality Socialism had or has is found in it's failure to produce anything much less fulfill all it's promises.
The promised goals however often do have value so which falls right into the lap of the representative Democracy AKA Republic as the tool we do have or any other form of society and it's government as a free gift and one that is not insurmountable as it would be to a socialist but surmountable (both good words).
One reason I don't support either of the two socialist parties in power.
However I'll leave this segment with the twin phrases of 'motor of the world' and 'means of production.'' Useful tools meaning much the same thing as this phrase. If they pretend to pay we'll pretend to work. Being ''men of the mind'' our pretense will be more productive as whatever is available will be ours. The means of production refers to the simple conclusion that everyone employed in any endeavor top to bottom must contribute for the endeavor to succeed. A combination of mind and muscle and that was depicted by John Galt as a track laborer.
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If you test socialists personal views you will find they hate the human mind because it wants to be free. That upsets their plans for reshaping you.
Please remind these poorly informed souls that George Fox, founder of "Quakerism" saw the importance and place of this imperative civic function. He never argued, in print or public, against his taxes paying for this protection.
So Capitalism is a financial system, Nothing virtuous about socialism no matter it is the system of choice in Washington DC I went back to that part of the Constitution and came up - so far with - the best of a democratically chosen representative government = a Republic. or the Best of a democratic Republic with the spelling as you see it.
Second Phase.is how to keep it from becoming the same as we have today.
Of all the changes I listed for consideration only one is sacred ground. Recall and Initiative at all levels in all States. Followed by any of the measures that empower the citizens with means to control government. I include recall to mean the Senators and 'Representatives elected as State delegates to the federal congress.
the rest is negotiable and more than likely can be improved to attain the goal of citizens controlling their employees working in government.
Absent a better idea it's an existing framework for all else we seem to agree on with few exceptions. Most of those are semantics.
this is meant to stop question one and start discussion two. What Is the Best of Capitalism as a financial system in support of a a Republic chosen by democratic means? Or by any other means.
Keeping in mind there are other options and the rest is informational.
The military upholding their oath of office is still available should they choose to do so. They might do it because of their oath of office.I can't think of any other reason. I rate it less than 50-50. But all it would take is some leadership, a well written and acceptable five paragraph field order, and a spark - like being ordered to fire on citizens - with business as usual with 48 hours.Not particularly difficult and no requirement for tanks in the street.
There are always options. The next one in view is the Protective Echelon being built and entrenched. Protective Echelon is English for Schutz Staffel.
What's to stop any of it? Hmmm you just had three elections that indicated or were explained as the people choosing to harassed in airports by amateurs over retaining their civil rights. Another way to put it is the public being unaccountably held accountable for the crimes of twenty. Public meaning the entire nation. Easy to see whose paying the price.
Doesn't look good.
Still as i'm about to lose wifi again Best of Capitalism as financial support of the best of a representative form of government. Or any other way would care to present your ideas and ...dreams.
So, trying to come up with a governmental system to benefit 'society' is a fool's errand. Such talk is generally used to convince someone to act in other than their own best interest in the hopes of bettering this abstract concept.
All that really exists is the individual -- and as individuals we all have different desires, needs, and skills. What government there is should be designed around supporting individual freedom and not trying to do something to the abstract 'society'. Individuals, acting in their own best interest, are far more effective than someone trying to 'plan' an efficient organization.
allows all of us to exert only voluntary actions
in relation to it, and to one another under its
umbrella. . Jefferson, Madison et al did a good job! -- j
.
action requirements like the EPA and the IRS saddle
us with -- yet the way it's going these days, we need
a stronger, more explicit constitution. . imho. -- j
.