The Robots are Coming!

Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 11 months ago to Technology
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 11 months ago
    With nursing home care costing over $50,000 a year and climbing and our population as a whole rising in age, we face a serious problem.

    I have long felt that robotic assistance in the home represents our best chance for meeting this challenge. There are already many automated devices that can help people stay at home longer by monitoring activity levels to detect falls and illnesses, keeping track of medication conformance etc.

    Over the next few years I expect to see this significantly expand. Japan, which is explicitly attempting to develop robotics for this function seems to be leading the way.

    My sister, who works in a nursing home, once told me that often a simple thing like not being able to button your own shirt throws a person out of their home and into nursing care. The threshold to make a difference is low.

    The day may come when we don't have nursing homes, that robot companions take care of us. But, in the meantime, if something can keep someone out of a nursing home for two or three years longer there is a pretty impressive market to be met.

    And, along these lines, with the advent of self driving cars, the point at which one loses their mobility because they are no longer safe to drive disappears.
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  • Posted by khalling 8 years, 11 months ago
    I saw something cool yesterday, where the robotics were actually components that strapped on your body to help you stand up easier or even walk if you were wheelchair bound. awesome! but the person who posted the video demonstrating the robotics (japanese) made a comment that as much good as man can invent it can also be used for evil. headshake
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    • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 11 months ago
      I read a telling first person account of someone who had been in a wheelchair for some years. He had gotten access to some prosthetics that allowed him to walk again - albeit in a limited fashion. He said that until he was crippled he had not realized what it was like to go through life 'staring at people's crotch'...because that is where a wheelchair puts your eyes.

      Anything that can get people like this back on their feet again is good in my book.

      May I add my "headshake to yours, khalling? Talk about looking the gift horse of technology in the mouth!

      Jan
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 11 months ago
    I watched my own father in three of those places. The best one's the family could afford. I'd rather move to Oregon and take the pill.

    We already have robots taking care of us. They are called ...Predators? Terminators? Ahh yes I have it!! Politicians.
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  • Posted by jpellone 8 years, 11 months ago
    This may be a little off topic but lets look at StarTrek TNG. Picard says that we have no use for money, we have evolved beyond riches to self improvement or something like that.
    If you notice though, there are still people living in mud huts as compared to others living in luxury on Earth. The so called military living the best. Shouldn't they all be living the same???

    On another note: Robotics: They already have a machine that will make burgers and sandwiches to order and make them the way you want them. If they keep pushing for a "Living wage" for starter jobs, they will be replaced by these machines. I'm sure that day will come soon!!!
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 11 months ago
      The Star Trek gov't varies a little depending on who writes the story. My interpretation is that automation has reduced the cost of most everything used in daily life in their society to a point where they don't have to think about trading stuff if they don't want to. My understanding is no one lives in the UFP lives in poverty, but the Prime Directive (PD) prevents them from introducing automation to undeveloped worlds because the people who created the PD feared any such contact would be inherently exploitative.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 11 months ago
      STNG is fiction, and unlike AS there are parts that are not going to happen. The particular part you refer to is statist propaganda. Unsurprising since STNG's "Federation" is a statist empire with a few trappings of liberty to keep the masses enslaved to the political system. Naturally that "boring" part is never displayed. The producers think the audience is too dumb (brainwashed) to be able to understand anything more than 'slavery is bad' or 'women can do everything that men can.'
      I can't recall any screen depiction of the political system of STNG. That would have been a revealing episode albeit perhaps not a ratings winner,
      More on that (with some speculation):
      http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/United_F...
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      • Posted by jpellone 8 years, 11 months ago
        I understand what you are saying but I am mainly referring to the episode that they find some humans in a state of suspended animation and one of the guys that are brought back to life and cured of his ailments was talking to Captain Picard about how his portfolio must have grown since he was frozen. Picard's response is that they don't use money in the 24th century.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui6g23yg...
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 11 months ago
          A more appropriate response by Picard would have been that his law firm and his portfolio had been nationalized, then "planetized", then "galaxied" until any vestige of what had once been his had been eliminated. A simpler answer would have been that, since his being placed into cryogenic stasis, he had been presumed dead, and since the death tax was now 100%, his "substantial portfolio" had been used to pay down the national debt.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 11 months ago
          I know the episode filled with anti-capitalism propaganda and touchy-feely rubbish.

          Picard would have to get a productive job as an arbitrator if the federation wasn't looting from all the producers who invent things for self interest at home, and from colonists who desire more and become brave pioneers creating new trade routes, and deveoping natural resources on new worlds.
          There does appear to be an obvious difference in the federation between STOS and STNG. The federation in STOS is helping protect the private interests of producers and pioneers. In STNG the federation is pursuing their own holier-than-mere-producers interests. The STNG universe is filled with politically correct looters like Picard subtly telling everyone to be cute, fuzzy little altruists because he has this powerful warship, one of many, that won't tolerate mere self intersted free individuals. STOS is a free, late 19th century culture. STNG is a 21st century Mommy-state socialist empire. I choose a place where I can live free even if I must work to survive, not a socialist "eden" where the state as god dictates what I must do.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
    ...and the value of manual labor plummets even further, eventually causing riots among those with thumbs, but no ambition or discipline.
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 11 months ago
      We are going to figure out what type of economic system that will work if there is simply not enough productive work for the majority of the people to have jobs.
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      • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
        Sounds feasible but a little unsavory. Sounds a little like, "reservations". Do you have an idea in mind?
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        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 11 months ago
          F.A. Hayek and and Milton Friedman, among a host of others have advocated a government provided basic income.

          Yes, I know that sounds pretty repugnant, but I keep coming back to a solution like this when I imagine a world where sufficient goods and services for the entire population can be produced with minimal human effort.
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          • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
            What do you think about a negative income tax (progressive rate, where it becomes negative below a level)? Seems better than welfare
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            • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 11 months ago
              It's a variation on the theme. It allows someone whose skills are insufficient to make a living to still do productive work -- which I applaud. At some point, though, it doesn't make sense to have someone do the job at all.

              You could, for example, hire people to weave clothes and pay them a nickle an hour, making up the difference with a negative income tax. But even then it's not clear they could compete with automated looms.

              And at this point is there any real point to them doing it?
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              • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
                Well, that is the point isn't it. Where does it end?

                At some point in the past, there was no government welfare, but now it is the largest part of our government spending. Seems there is 1) no incentive for those participating to get off, 2) ever-growing minimum needs, and 3) no plan to address it.
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                • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 11 months ago
                  Do not take my words for support for the current welfare and government system. There are still plenty of jobs that people can get to care for themselves and their families.

                  However, with the rise of technology that may not always be the case. It's one thing to tell people to get off their a-- and get a job if there are jobs, but if there aren't? What alternative do we have?

                  Automation has always provided new jobs to replace the old ones, but we can't count on that continuing to be true as the automation becomes more capable. At that point we need to rethink the requirement that people produce.

                  Does that make us a world of moochers? Maybe. We could require people to dig holes and fill them up to get food but I have no enthusiasm for non-productive activity. I also don't want a business to be required to hire people if robots are more productive for the same cost. That's just a hidden tax.
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          • Posted by 8 years, 11 months ago
            Then there should be a lot of people learning to be musicians, sculptors, painters, videographers, goldsmiths, and other creative ways to earn a basic income. There are ways to be productive if there is an incentive.
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            • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 11 months ago
              There's a difference between being productive and earning an income. The original Luddites were trying to smash the automatic looms because they would put them out of work.
              And they did. You cannot make a living weaving -- except for very high end specialty goods, and few people can afford them. I know a number of people who are weavers, my wife among them, but you can't make a basic living weaving -- yet we have more clothes than at any time in history, We can make t-shirt so inexpensively that companies give them away.

              Musicians have pretty much also been automated away, not by actually automating the music but by recording. Local musicians have to compete with the best musicians in the world with the best production values. Yes, live music is still popular, but as my brother says, who's the best guitar player I've ever heard, "I'm a roofer because that puts food on the table".

              How can you make a living spending hours doing something that can be produced for a buck?
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    • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago
      There's a real easy fix for that, of course: abolish the minimum wage. Robotics and automation are everywhere for one single reason: it's cheaper and easier to have a computer do the job than to pay for a human.

      Now I'm in computers, so I'm not worried about my job going away. But I am worried about my kids being able to get those first few jobs and experience that get them into the labor force and those are the jobs being lost to automation because government rules are making them too expensive for business owners to offer!
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 11 months ago
    My body is breaking down in increments. As I lose control due to increased pain or whatever, will my solution be a robot or a storage shelf in a nursing home? If I get to the point where I can no longer take care of myself, I am fortunate that I am surrounded by people who love me, and feel capable of taking care of me should the situation arise. Unfortunately there are many not in this situation who cannot afford robotic assistance.

    Old people's problems aside, there is no doubt that robotics will play an increasing part in human lives. This year can most likely compared to 1980, when computers were first making their appearance. Soon, robots of varying kinds will be as common as pets are today.
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 11 months ago
      It's still early in the process, but when we hit the threshold for an effective home aid robot the market will be massive and the price will come down.

      Once the technology matures, there's no reason a home robot should cost more than a car.
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      • Posted by 8 years, 11 months ago
        I guess I will buy a used one, like my car.
        I suspect we are a (human) generation or two from used robots being nearly as functional as new, but at least the programming should be upgradable to some extent. Can I code it in java? ;^)
        Its only 2 generations since those early computers.
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 11 months ago
    when we have enough robot companions out there nobody will any reason to talk to anybody that happens to be human. the fact of the matter is the youth of the western world with all its video capabilities have already started to disconnect from each other what a wonderful world we are seeing develop.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 11 months ago
      People will still talk if they think they'd like each other. But no one will be forced to talk to those they don't like any longer. This is a true improvement (and one the SJWs will certainly try to outlaw, once they figure out that it's happening).
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    • Posted by 8 years, 11 months ago
      So we shouldn't be concerned about racism at all.
      Another misguided misdirection from Emperor O.
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      • Posted by blackswan 8 years, 11 months ago
        Racism, and every type of tribalism, is just a made-up metric that a lot of non-thinking people got sucked into, because it's easier than thinking. With technology, that shortcut will prove to be sub optimal, because it will more and more be important to THINK.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 8 years, 11 months ago
    Not to worry... when the robots take too many jobs the unions will buy enough politicians to fix things... Seriously, people will probably work less and do jobs like George Jetson. My button finger is getting sore just thinking about it. :)
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 11 months ago
    "Pepper analyzes facial expressions, body language, and verbal cues, honing its responses and offering a dynamic and surprisingly natural conversation partner"
    We see it flirting in the picture.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 8 years, 11 months ago
    I would really would like to have the ExoSkeleton that was used in the "Edge of Tomorrow" movie. The way my skeleton is incurring an arthritic covering on alot of bones I'll need that mechanical suit in a few years. Then I won't need a robot to help me.
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