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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years ago
    All of today's hot items are making me want to break something. I was fine until I read all the topics. Luckily, I'm a feeble old poop who can't punch his way out of a tissue paper bag. What's the matter with people? Get up, go to your window and shout, I'm fed up and I'm not going to take it anymore!
    Hold on -- the neighbors are looking at me funny. Oh, well...
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 9 years ago
    Forget this nonsense and educate the women of Islam in academics, give them driver's license and a fashion trip to Rodeo Drive. Then ask if they want to go back to the teachings this school is foisting on US students! This is not education, this is indoctrination. I have been in class with Muslim males, talked with them, and they have no desire to set their women free, and they will use their religion to keep things as they are. US girls are already slaves to the TV and rap music, which can be quite disrespectful to women. I still remember Nine Inch Nails, and the disrespect on one album our daughter brought home. She had not yet picked up on the words to consider what they were saying. Teach the students math, science, philosophy, forget this junk education. A few years ago it was a black religion not even in existence until the late 60s, that they were promoting. I guarantee, in the end, it will the the UN's Gaia worship which will find its way into the classrooms.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years ago
    Goofy. I get the idea of teaching about various religions. Understanding that an adherents believe "allah is the one true god" and "the five pillars" is ok, if it is taught in the light of these are the beliefs of islam. They should (and perhaps do) cover hindu, buddisim and christianity as well...and perhaps they do. The article does not cover the complete syllabus.

    When I was in high school, Florida required Comparative Political Systems, where they taught us about communism vs capitalism and socialism. This was pretty good, but the intention was clear. Sounds like this islam class is less well rounded.

    Totally agree with what is said in the article about the reaction of doing the same with christianity.

    Another article, slightly more comprehensive:
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/...

    This is virtually identical to reverse ethnic discrimination ( e.g. a negative comment about a white person vs a negative comment about a black person).
    Consider noting a negative fact like:
    15% of the population is black and they commit 50% of the crime, while the minority Asians are the highest earning ethnic group.
    Compared with:
    Those rednecks are just fat and dumb. Who else would watch car racing where they just drive left in a circle or listen to music about your dog getting hit by a pickup?

    The first one can cause a riot, or at least an argument about how unfair life is. The second will largely get a smile from the same people.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years ago
    One friend of mine has the theory that America won't actually suffer a rapid collapse (or slow one - my theory). But, he says that we'll just get taken over by the Muslim religion and become a society like Iran, etc. He might be one to something. When they stone to death homosexuals or women in middle-eastern countries there is zero outcry from the left here. Perhaps they support it(?)
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  • Posted by term2 9 years ago
    So these people are forcibly educations our kids? How do they know ANY one of hundreds of "gods" is the "true" God?? Maybe none of them.
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  • Posted by waytodude 9 years ago
    This is unconstitutional in so many ways. Don't matter what God you believe in or even if you don't. A little thing called separation of church and state. Freedom of speech. Where is everyone that is an American.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years ago
    I thought the requirement of prayer in a public school was against the law.
    Oh! But this is all about the PC coddling of Islam.
    It's that oh so special "religion of peace" the Liar-In-Chief said it was.
    That makes Muslims so-o exceptional for the giddy libtards in power.
    So never mind.
    Allah Akbar Boom.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years ago
    Another great pity is these people are so poorly educated in religion. They do not realize all Abrahamic religions worship the same god. The main Abrahamic religions are Jewish, Christian, and Muslim. So, in a sense, Allah is the only true god of Christians and Jews.
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    • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years ago
      "God" is referred to by several names in Hebrew and Aramaic, but English-speaking Christians are uncomfortable about hearing anything but the three letter label. The reason the invocation of the Arabic term "Allah" raises such concern is that extremist Muslims react violently to any other name of the deity, and imposing that label as well as the prayer rituals on public school students implies an endorsement of that form of the Abrahamic faith, while the same school institutions will expel a student who tries to invoke any ritual of Jewish or Christian form of worship.

      Trying to justify favoring any form of religion while denying any other in a public institution is a clear violation of the First Amendment. Invoking religious ritual is not the same as teaching the ideological differences of various faiths in a "Comparative Religions" class.
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      • Posted by Esceptico 9 years ago
        They (religions) all hate atheists, even more than each other. Your point about the First Amendment is well taken, but (there is always a “but”) the courts are peopled by political animals. One would think a state governor or the U.S. president issuing a Christian Proclamation of a Day of Prayer (done every year by all 50 governors and the prez since the 1950s) would violate the Constitution. The courts, however, say atheists do not have “standing” to bring the suit. I know. I was lead counsel in both a state and a federal case on this issue. Atheists don’t count.

        But, that was not my point. Almost all the Christians with whom I speak, think "their" god is different from the Muslim god. My point. is that Christains are religiously ignorant even of their religion.
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        • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years ago
          "Hate" is usually too strong a word to be used with regard to the view of most non-extreme Christians and Muslims have of Atheists. Pity, sadness, disappointment that such people can't share their belief in a divine presence is more like what I've found after exposure to numerous versions of both faiths.

          What I usually find is that Atheists are often paranoid, angry, and frustrated at what they perceive is a non-intellectual acceptance of lack of proof of a deity in the community of believers. Agnostics are more accepting of attempts to make believers of them than Atheists.

          Nonetheless, as a Deist, I share the position of Atheists that it's better not to try to incorporate any religious belief system into education. Given the incredible number of religious faiths and their numerous sects in each, it's near impossible to accommodate the rituals of all religious variants equally, as was intended by the Founders.

          When the Constitution was written, the variance of Abrahamic faiths in the colonies was limited almost entirely to Catholic and Protestant Christianity, with a small Jewish population. It was much easier to convince this near homogeneous mix of faiths to abide peacefully with each other than trying to do the same with the much more diverse religious population our country has today.
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          • Posted by term2 9 years ago
            Hence the need for an agreed on constitution that is based on individual rights. After that, people can believe what they want so long as they don't act to violate another's rights the problem with any "belief" is that there is no way to change beliefs that don't accept the facts of reality. You can believe the moon is made of green cheese regardless of any evidence
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            • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years ago
              I once worked with a brilliant computer scientist who was a member of the Flat Earth Society (yes, there really is such an organization). I thought, for some time, that he joined just for a laugh, but when I suggested that, I was subject to an hour of irate declaration of the "proof" that the Earth was flat. Afterward, I limited my side of the discussion of organizations like this to a positive head shake, and "non-comments" (like "Oh" or "interesting").
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        • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
          The nature of God actually is usually THE pre-eminent difference between ANY two religions. And why is that? Because religion is all about emulation: what set of standards of behavior are going to lead to what results after this life. God is the embodiment of those aggregate standards. That's why there exist so many religions at all: there are hundreds of different interpretations of these matters.

          The second major part that comes into play is line of authority. That's the main difference between all the various Christian faiths and is even the cause of the schism between the sects of Islam.

          Have a minister/pastor/rabbi/imam/etc. answer those two questions and it will tell you about 80%+ about their religion.
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          • Posted by term2 9 years ago
            I dont think about this whole idea of God much anymore. The more I thought about it, the crazier a notion it appeared to be. Just made no sense to me at all. I think when you die, its like unplugging a computer. It just stops. People dont have permanent flash memory or hard drives which can be revived. Hmm, maybe if you downloaded the sum of a persons memory BEFORE he died, you could reload it into another human brain (or an android brain) and live again. Anyway, its not likely to be an option for me in my lifetime.... When its over, its over. Make the best of life NOW.
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            • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
              Death is a pretty imposing eventuality every philosophy or religion has to deal with, no doubt about it. What I have found is that most people's view of death also strongly correlates with their views on life. Those who believe that this life is all there is to existence are generally non-religious (I don't necessarily use the word atheist). Those who believe this life leads to another are generally religious and which religion they select is based on how they view the afterlife.

              The question is this: what is the purpose of life - my life specifically? If my consciousness is only fleeting, there become zero repercussions for my actions other than how I feel at that precise moment. If my consciousness is permanent and death is not the end, it leads one to ask what the next life would be like so I can prepare for it. That to me is the crucial decision for each of us to make.
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              • Posted by term2 9 years ago
                I would say the purpose of philosophy is to lead the best life you can now, and is routed in practicality- what works best. When it comes to living around other people, I say that agreement on universal individual rights for everyone works best in the long run. If you believe in an afterlife, philosophy does depend on what the 'next life" would be like. Unfortunately none of the religions I have heard about really talks about the details, and one could argue that since the next life is supposed to be forever, why bother with philosophy in this one- just do whatever feels good at the time and await the next life.
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          • Posted by Esceptico 9 years ago
            All the religions I have inspected all have the common ideas about their god: omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, etc. Which are internally contradictory. Wikipedia says there are approximately 41,000 Christian denominations alone. As Dawkins says, if even one of these is right, all the others are wrong.

            "One must never set one man’s truth against another’s." Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, in Wind, Sand and Stars. Which is why the principle of no one may initiate the use of force against another is so important. Even the pilgrams came from Europe not for freedom but to impose their brand of religion on all others.
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            • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
              "Even the pilgrams came from Europe not for freedom but to impose their brand of religion on all others."

              Can you justify such a claim? The Puritans, Quakers, and other Protestant religions left Europe to escape the tyranny of the Catholic Church or the Church of England - both "state-sponsored" institutions of religion and the primary cause for the Establishment Clause of the US Constitution.

              "if even one of these is right, all the others are wrong."

              Precisely. But it does make you wonder: given the sheer volume, is one of them right and how would you find it if it were there?
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              • Posted by Esceptico 9 years ago
                Since none can define in an intelligible way the god they believe in, and since omnipotence seems to be a part of whatever loose definition they mumble, I do not see how any can be correct. The standard procedure in thinkings is to make a proposition which is understandable, then adduce evidence to support the proposition. Religious people never succeed in defining their god.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years ago
        I usually agree with DrZarkov, but I think that in this case I prefer Esceptico's insight. If the Politically Correct pro-Islamists were congratulated on teaching the Abrahamic religions in their schools and someone perhaps enthused at how much easier the transition to born-again Christianity will be for the students, once this foundation has been laid...well, it might take the wind out of their sails a bit.

        Jan
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        • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years ago
          Unfortunately, both Christians and Muslims are demonstrably ignorant of the historical development of the three major faiths. Some Jews understand the development of their faith better than others, particularly the fact that there were at least four different versions of the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible/Torah), with the earliest version of Genesis not having the seven day creation, which was added only after the Jews were exposed to the Babylonian culture, which created the seven day week as just one instance of how the scriptures evolved.

          When either the Muslim or Christian believers are exposed to what a wide variation of scriptural development took place, both in the old and new testaments, and how the Koran is primarily a third hand "word of Allah" (written well after the life of the Prophet, by writers who interviewed illiterate tribesmen who were "inspired" to remember the words of the equally illiterate Muhammad as they or others they knew recalled them), they're usually extremely upset and unwilling to accept such academic revelations.

          The nutty idea that giving credence to either Christian or Islamic religious promoters serving the interests of uniting the Abrahamic faith, or converting either to the others' views non-violently leads to no good end. Witness the violent clashes between Sunni and Shiite sects of Islam, or the bloody wars fought between Catholic and Orthodox Christianity should be proof enough of the unlikelihood of these faiths finding common ground. Coptic and Protestant Christians or Sufi Muslims can advise you on how poorly that's worked.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
            Uh, you're going to have a hard time with that, as the differences are prime and fundamental. Judaism claims that a Messiah will come to free the people from bondage - both physical and spiritual. Christianity claims that Jesus Christ was that Messiah and that the Jews are waiting for an event which already happened. Islam claims that Christ was just a prophet and a subordinate one to Mohammed. Islam claims that the Abrahamic authority passed through Ishmael, while Judaism (and Christianity) both claim that authority passed through Isaac.

            Then you get into the various schisms of the religions themselves. You have Orthodox Jews who wear the finery, etc. and non-traditional Jews. You have at least five sects of Islam (Sunni, Shia, Wahab, Baath, etc.) who all disagree over who took responsibility for leading Islam after Mohammed died. There are hundreds of Christian denominations who all differ on authority (and frequently on tenet).

            The main caution I would make is in trying to lump any of these together with some kind of homogeneous appellation. Talking about "religion" is like talking about the clouds as they pass over - they all match a very general description, but to any meteorologist they will shake their head when you suggest they are even remotely similar. Only principles are solid, tangible items.
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          • Posted by $ jlc 9 years ago
            To continue my humorous note: But imagine the expression on the faces of the teachers if you congratulated them for pre-conditioning the students to become born-again-Christians. (It is PC for them to be pro-Islamic, but not at all correct for them to be born-again-Christians, which liberals regard as being synonymous with devilspawn Republicans.)

            The scientific study of the Middle East and its origins is something that I find absorbing. You are correct in that most people do not know that there are Mesopotamian and Egyptian texts that predate the bible and from which much of it seems to have been derived.

            I think the major point that people miss is that the ancient Jews were Mesolithic goat-herders who were rubbing shoulders with well-developed bronze-age civilizations. The culture of the old testament was formed by these contacts: imitative or reactive.

            Do you have a good source for your statements about the third-hand source of the Koran? I would be interested in reading more about that.

            Jan
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            • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years ago
              There are numerous issues with the origin of the Koran. You can start with the Wikipedia version, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of... , which tries to present all sides of the story. The only existing copies of the Koranic writings have been dated to more than 150 years after the death of the Prophet (except, strangely enough, the few verses found inscribed on the walls of the Dome of the Rock). Complete copies containing all of the surahs in the modern Koran date from around the tenth century.

              Much of modern Islam (particularly the more extreme variants) rely on the Isnas and Hadiths, which were added to the belief scripture as "previously undocumented" statements made by the Prophet. Since most of these were written well after the death of the Prophet (several centuries), and the Koran specifically admonishes anyone that additions are forbidden (like stated in the Book of Revelations in the Christian New Testament), it suggests that they were creations incorporating practices of ethnic groups or tribes to aid in conversion. One reference that cites this is here: http://livingoasis.org/wp-content/upload... .

              I've purposely left out even more skeptical Koranic histories compiled by Christian Pentecostals, as they suggest the Koran was an act of Satan. Because of that perspective, one has to question even what may be correct information they present.

              One thing that makes the Koran unique is that the order of the surahs (chapters) is not chronological in the order they were revealed to the Prophet, but in the order they were assembled by its writers. Originally the believers felt that oral recitation was the way that the Prophet's words should be passed, as that was the way he spread the Word, but after the deaths of many of the original followers in battle, the fear that the faith might be lost if not documented is why a holy scripture of Islam exists at all.
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            • Posted by Lucky 9 years ago
              Jan's question.
              On the death of M none of the Koran was written. It was held in the memories of the followers. Now today people cannot remember a line, we see well known presidents make frequent use of teleprompters. But then, using memory was common. At that time there were three major schools on the teaching of M. The words were written only some decades later. The opinion of those who are fluent in Arabic is that the versions agreed very closely. This is some evidence that the cruelty and violence are authentic.
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            • Posted by term2 9 years ago
              Maybe it's time to set up a website where people can start religions, set up suitable beliefs and seek subjects to join the religion. Let's get some competition. The beliefs can be drawn from the "ether" to give them more meaning. There can be priests and bishops and adonation system. The "god" resides in the ether and can send down forgiveness. I could go on...
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              • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years ago
                Actually, there is at least one such web site (I'll try to look it up) where you can apply for and be granted a certification for a religion of any belief system you want. Once granted, the certificate allows you to establish an organization that's just as much tax free as, say, the Methodist Church. While this is laughable on its face, it makes the point of how organized religion can be a ripoff.
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                • Posted by term2 9 years ago
                  Interesting. I thought a good tagline would be "Your church, Your way, Right now". I thought it would be a half joke, but on the other hand- if you have to believe something, you might as well believe ONLY what you want to believe and not the other baggage that comes with established churches. Bring competition to religion, with the 'beliefs" coming from the ether (hey, just as believable as from some book purportedly thousands of years old, or from some undiscovered planet.
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  • Posted by BobFreeman 9 years ago


    If our goal is peace, prosperity and freedom, we must have separation of education and State [http://www.schoolandstate.org/home.htm], health care and State, child care and State, charity and State & economics and State, as we should have separation of church and State ... and for the same reasons.

    Let's replace our coercive State with the "Natural Republic" (aka “Free stateless Society”), in which all humans have 100% control of their lives and property. To do that, there must be a group of humans who thoroughly understand the solution. Please help as many of your thinking friends as possible to experience Jay Snelson’s “Human Action Principles” lectures, now available on the MP3 drive at http://www.suscivinst.com/store/.

    That’s presently the BEST source for the SCIENTIFIC approach to the Voluntary Society. (Lou & I have no financial interest in this product but we have a STRONG intellectual interest in helping as many people as possible understand the Win-Win Paradigm.).

    For FREE information on the SCIENTIFIC approach, Fred Marks’ book-in-progress, based on the work of Andrew J Galambos and others, is available at www.CapitalismTheLiberalRevolution.com.
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  • Posted by $ rainman0720 9 years ago
    I agree w/Clairity. This is insane.

    What's next? Rewriting the Pledge of Allegiance to say "One world, under Allah" instead of "One nation under God"?
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    • Posted by $ prof611 9 years ago
      It should say, "One nation, indivisible,..." like it used to. Why was it changed to use the G word???
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      • Posted by $ jdg 9 years ago
        We only have a Pledge to begin with because "progressives" like Sanger pushed it in the 1920s. The original version included the straight-arm Nazi salute. I say abolish the Pledge, and maybe replace it with Galt's Oath.
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        • Posted by DaveM49 9 years ago
          That's true. The salute was dropped during World War II for obvious reasons. The pledge of allegiance, in different form, originally appeared in a Socialist magazine.

          A flag is merely a piece of cloth unless one understands the system and the principles for which it serves as a symbol. I often recommend that people see or read James Clavell's "The Children's Story", which is on YouTube. It takes place in real time and demonstrates beautifully how unthinking "allegiance" can be used against those who do not think.
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