10

Restaurants and tipping - For or Against?

Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago to Economics
63 comments | Share | Flag

I expect a lively debate here. There are pros and cons to both sides and some good points made by the article on either side. What is your take? Do you reward good servers with more generous tips?
SOURCE URL: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/why-some-restaurants-are-doing-away-with-tipping/2015/04/13/cb1b5a86-c299-11e4-9271-610273846239_story.html


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by Eudaimonia 8 years, 11 months ago
    If a restaurant includes the gratuity through salary or automatic billing item, then I don't leave a tip.
    I figure that the staff has negotiated for their compensation.

    However, most places do not do these things.
    When at these places I do tip.

    As a younger man, I've worked as a waiter and before that, a busboy.
    I've been on "the other side".
    So, I always tip.

    I know that this is off topic, so I apologize in advance.
    A lot of times perceived bad service is the fault of the cooks, not the waitstaff.
    If the cooks are slow, incompetent, or overwhelmed, the wait staff suffers.
    The cooks, however, are paid much more than the waitstaff.

    Although sometimes it is the wait staff's fault.
    But, I find it easy to tell the incompetent and the rude from someone's who's having a bad day.

    That said, here's a real "tip" if you want great service.
    Be nice to your wait staff.
    Engage with them.
    Joke with them.
    If appropriate, engage in some harmless light flirting.
    People enjoy enjoyable people.

    If your wait staff like you, the service will be better.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
      You are one of those who tips like crazy because you remember how much money you wanted to make when you were a waiter. Its a bad system in that it puts the customer in between the manager and the employee, and uses guilt to get extra money for a server. Most servers are really bad. They want to talk. They come up and butt in to ask you dumb questions while you are having a conversation. I think a good server, if there are any left, can see on their own if you need more water, or if you are looking around to get someones attention. The server is NOT my buddy- their job is not to entertain me- its to attend to my needs. The order of the day is to disrespect the customer's time and attention by butting in when not needed, and disappearing and looking the other way when the customers do need something.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Eudaimonia 8 years, 11 months ago
        Did I mention anything about the percentages that I tip?

        No, I did not.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
          The problem is that over time the percentages go up and up with customers vying with each other to get "better" service. In the end the servers win, the restaurant loses, and the servers become "entitled". Its just not a good system. Let the managers set the service level for all the customers, and negotiate with all the employees to get that service level.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by Eudaimonia 8 years, 11 months ago
            Look, how's this?

            You deal with waitstaff the way that you choose, and I will do the same.

            You refrain from replying to me with generalizations like "You are on of those people" and I will do the same.

            Have a nice day.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
              If you were my waiter, I wouldnt tip and wouldnt go back. Perhaps you can find other customers to tip you. Your attitude sucks.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
                If you can't disagree with people politely, ie without name calling, you will quickly get voted down and out of the community. It's okay to disagree, but not to be disagreeable.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by Eudaimonia 8 years, 11 months ago
                  blarman, a few points.

                  1) I'm having fun with this, so no worries on my end.

                  2) That said, I sometimes wonder how many Producers know that they can (and should) police their own threads. So, kudos to you for knowing that and following through.
                  I upvoted your post, not because I thought that policing was needed (like I said, I'm having fun with this), but that *you* thought that policing was needed and you followed through on it.

                  3) When I feel the need to police one of my threads, I reference my Two Strike Policy. Feel free to use it or come up with your own version
                  http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/6d...
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
                    I'm more than happy to allow you to control the thread, I just thought it prudent to remind term2 that we in the Gulch pride ourselves on the merit of our arguments rather than on the temperature of their delivery. ;)
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by Eudaimonia 8 years, 11 months ago
                      I might have been unclear, and if so, I apologize.

                      I can not police anyone else's threads other than my own, the same is true for any Producer (specifically the "Hide" link)

                      I was merely offering my Two Strike Policy for you to use as a template if you choose to.

                      Again, kudos on the policing.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
                  Whoever posted this thread did say there would be a lot of activity. That's because restaurant service is replete with 'entitlement' philosophy (living wage and all), expectation of tips, and frankly pretty bad service overall. One doesnt get to voice an opinion very often on this subject as most people seem to be trapped into the "having to tip" mentality and they object to anyone who does not tip 15-20%. I didnt expect to see that attitude here, so it was a bit upsetting when it was thrust in my face again in this setting. There is no such thing as a living wage, and servers shouldnt expect tips as some sort of right.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
                    I posted the article.

                    I didn't downvote you for your position or your arguments. I clearly pointed out in the original post that I expected a lively discussion and that it was likely that both sides would present cogent points. That being said, I had to stop for a second when the post turned to a personal attack with a comment on someone's attitude.

                    Regarding your observations about the restaurant industry in general, I don't think anyone is claiming it is perfect. Different ways of doing business are how economies progress and better serve customers. The main measure of success is staying in business. I think everyone in this forum objects to the looter mentality, they just disagree whether or not the practice of tipping is part of it - which was the entire point of the article.

                    I think it can be argued that there is a fine line between tipping for value and tipping as part of the cost, and your points are not without merit. I don't see from any of the comments that anyone is arguing any such thing. It's an exchange of viewpoints and I would like to see us all remain professional and objective.
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 11 months ago
                    I believe there is such a thing as a living wage, but that doesn't mean that anybody owes it to you.

                    I try to tip about as expected, if it's a place I expect to want to visit again. But if I don't, I don't bother. "You don't get credit for it."
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
                      I don't make a lot of money and I really appreciate the healthy fast food places where the structure makes it tipless and therefore cheaper. I find most all servers are more of a distraction to my enjoyment with comrades than an assistance. All this talk about how they expect tips turns me off really.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 11 months ago
      I, for one, agree with everything you said. . I married
      a medical secretary who was first attracted to me
      because I treated her decently, at my doctor's office,
      where she was the checking-out desk person.
      our marriage is solid because we respect one another
      first and love one another second.

      your personal service will be better if you show the
      people some respect, and our current system
      requires that some of their pay come from tips.

      get with it, or work to change it (referring to term2).
      open a restaurant where the people don't work
      on "instant commission." . post it, and watch your
      wait staff get rich on spontaneous tips!

      Thanks, Rick! -- j

      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
    To me the server makes a big difference in the meal, particularly since my wife has to eat gluten free.

    I regularly "overtip" if the service is good. It is just a little money to me, but often more significant to the server. I also find this offers me vastly superior service in places we frequent.

    I have infrequently gotten very bad service to the point I don't tip, but I have sent a message that way a few times.

    It is a way to send a message, and a small price to pay to be treated better.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
      So if you are treated better, then others are treated worse. What a great deal for the restaurant !! I say stop the practice and let the manager and employee negotiate to get the service the restaurant owner sets for his establishment. That way all customers are treated the same. Your approach results in the tipping amount getting larger and larger as each customer tries to get better service than the next one. Not a good system.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
        I'm not at all convinced service is a zero sum game. In fact, I suspect the waiter-waitresses being happy to see us come in improves their attitude and service for all.

        Asking the restaraunt management to measure the service is frought with error, compared to direct feedback from customers via tips. This is very much like central control and planning by the government versus multiple private industry.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
          A lot of managers roam the dining room so they keep on top of the service they are giving. That way they keep in touch with the customers they are serving. If I had a restaurant I would certainly do that and not just trust that my employees were doing what was needed to make my restaurant a success. Servers are not the end all in restaurants either. What about the cooks that actually prepare the food. I would say thats even more important than the service, and its important for the boss to monitor the quality there too. Check out that Gordon Ramsay "kitchen nightmares"!!
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
            Sure, they can do this too, but it is an indirect measure.

            I don't run a Restaraunt. I believe tipping gives me the ability to provide feedback and to solicit better service. As a customer it provides me a controls. Therefore, I prefer it.

            Your argument it that it is better for the Restaraunt management/owner NOT to tip. Maybe. But it is not better for the customer.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
              Nice thing about the free market is that each owner/manager can run things differently. It could easily be that some customers want to tip and others dont, so the customer base gets split but people are happy. My point is that with tipping, the average tip continues to rise as customers try to gain the advantage with the servers relative to other customers. In my lifetime its already gone from 10% to 20% or you are thought of as a skinflint.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
                Free market is great.

                I pretty much count on other people being cheap. I'm an engineer, so I'm surrounded by cheapskates. Being economically generous and wearing bizarre socks make my office mates think I was dropped on my head as a child.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 11 months ago
          I don't see service as zero-sum either, but I don't think the waiter has that much control over it. Many places understaff, resulting in poor-to-fair service for everyone. Or they'll treat some of the wait staff badly (for instance, Denny's seems to allocate equal amounts of tips to all staff on their W-2's, even though some staff work a lot more hours than others; I see this in my tax practice). Both these problems are management's fault.

          Yes, you can "send a message" by not tipping, but any place I would do that, I probably won't ever return to anyhow. That's what'll make them change if anything will.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
        I'm not quite following you here. Your contention is that service is equivalent to a fixed-size pie and the servers get to dole out the pieces to their customers. I can't reconcile that idea with the reality I'm familiar with. I can't quite picture why being polite, cheerful, and professional would have a lifespan or limit on use.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
          They only have so much time on their shift. Spend more time on one and you spend less time on another. The focus would be on maximizing tips, which means the minimum amount of time per $1 of tip. Encourages gaming the system- spend time and attention on who you think are going to be the big tippers, and just keep the others from complaining. Most of them will be shamed into leaving at least 10% even if the service is very minimal. Its just a bad system I think. I want the manager to control the service level and the employee wages.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
            An intelligent offering.

            Acknowledging the point that the server is self-interested, do they actually get more in tips for quality or for quantity? I think that is one of the primary sources of discussion. Both are an integral part of the overall equation. One thing that comes to mind is that the quality aspect is far more subjective than the quantity aspect. For someone who likes to deal in absolutes, I can see how the more seemingly quantifiable aspects would appeal. But I would question in the long-term which is actually the better move?

            Restaurants depend on a certain level of traffic just to pay the bills. They have fixed overhead costs which they append to each and every plate they serve based on an estimate of aggregate traffic. Without this minimum traffic, the restaurant goes under. Traffic over and above this level goes toward the profitability - and ultimately the manager's bonus. So the manager is ultimately interested in serving as many customers as possible within the time allotted, and the manager can certainly influence the servers in this respect. But I see this as a management decision - not a server decision.

            Now the server has two components of their pay to juggle - one which is basically show-up pay and which is independent of the number of customers who come through the door. This is the part the manager has a vested interest in keeping low because it acts as part of the overhead that comprises those fixed costs which determine the minimum customer level for profitability. The second part is one the manager doesn't think to consider at first because he/she sees no direct benefits from the tips like the server does. What the adroit manager takes into account, however, is that the competency of the serving staff (as can be partially measured by tip performance) is a direct factor in the repeat business of that customer. And as any savvy businessperson will attest, it is 10x easier to retain a customer than find a new one. So in reality, when the customer signals their approval of their dining experience with a generous tip, they are also strongly indicating their opinions of the establishment and their intent to return or give a positive recommendation to others. That is important not to overlook.

            That being said, I completely agree that some diners take the cultural aspect of a tip into higher concern than the value actually exchanged. But I see this as a lack of engagement on the customer's side rather than on the restaurant's side. It's the difference between a high-information voter and a low-information one, imo.

            Clearly, there are many factors to juggle and each potential audience or market is going to differ as to what factors are going to attract it, thus I doubt there is a definitive "answer" to the question which addresses all situations, all markets, and all restaurants. I guess the only true test is to see how the experiment in this article "pans out" (another bad pun, I know. Trust me, my family gets them daily).
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Itheliving 8 years, 11 months ago
    First up the Federal and State Govts love this idea. I have tipped in cash. The servers have a choice on reporting the earnings. Restaurants want appetizers, cocktails, wine and deserts sold. Or upsold. The higher the tab the bigger the tip. Where is the incentive to do this? Isnt this bad for profits?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
      One thinks that the real purpose of the "server" is to upsell the customers on these items- they are salesmen for the restaurant. Their secondary purpose a lot of the time is to clear the plates- a busboy. This is NOT service. Good service is a person quietly and unobtrusively watching to see what you need and quietly getting it. Instead this is all the nonsense about "Hi, I'm Constance and I'll be your server tonight". I could really care less about getting to know them or what their names are. Its a service job.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 11 months ago
        Servers can be friendly or they can be impersonal order takers. I prefer friendly, it can make a positive difference in the quality of the overall restaurant experience.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
          Might be nice for a change to order via ipads or some sort of electronic thing handed from person to person in a party- eliminating the need for the server to take the order (and try to upsell the customers). Fast food places should all use kiosks with their limited menu where you enter your email address and it saves the things you normally order. Same with sit down restaurants- I usually ifnd things I like and order from that grouping
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Technocracy 8 years, 11 months ago
    Biggest issue with eliminating tipping is the overhead increase for the restaurant.

    It makes a tough business much tougher to keep running.

    I tip well for politeness and good service.
    If service is dismal or the server rude or nasty, I tell the manager.

    Even if there was not tipping required, I would still tip for excellent service. Outstanding work should be rewarded, especially given its scarcity.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Rex_Little 8 years, 11 months ago
    What I've never quite figured out is, how much should I tip at a buffet? The servers aren't taking my order or bringing my food, but they do bring drinks and take away used plates.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Snoogoo 8 years, 11 months ago
    I tip because I have worked as a waitress and I know the wage structure for that job. Good service deserves a good tip. In Europe, however, I learned that I should leave smaller tips because the minimum wage is much higher. I left a cab driver 20% once in Spain and his eyes almost popped out of his head. Someone had to tell me that was not normal. I think this is also why Americans equate Europe with bad service, if they don't need the tip then why try?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 11 months ago
    I am a generous tipper, for two reasons. One reason is that I see these people working hard, and their good service is of value to me.
    The other reason is that women are often bad tippers. I went to a dinner once with 3 women, and I was the only one who left a tip.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
      Tips should be banned. They discourage good service. The manager should insist on good service and pay what it takes for him to get that. Being a waiter today seems to take no skill at all. Why should they make so much money? A good server doesnt announce their name; doesnt butt in to conversations just because THEY happen to want to make it look like they are serving you; and doesnt look the other way when walking around to prevent customers from getting their attention
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
        I wholeheartedly disagree. One of the best waitresses I've ever had was at a place in Texas where I took my brother and a couple of friends to celebrate his impending wedding. She was simply outstanding: she never let our water glasses get empty, she engaged us in honest, thoughtful, and interesting dialogue while remaining professional, gave us honest suggestions on hors d'oeuvres and entrees, and substantially added to our dining experience. I tipped her VERY well despite knowing I would never be back to that restaurant.

        I've had other experiences where the waitress was far less professional, was pushy, or simply non-attendant. I've certainly had those who were inept at small-talk or those who were so aloof or harried that they didn't even try. The point to me is that they were all different, but all had a significant impact on the experience at that establishment on that night. They are the main point of contact. I fully endorse letting management know if things aren't quite right and separating cooking snafu's from serving behaviors, but I also don't pretend that a mediocre server is of similar value to me as a good - or even outstanding - one.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
          Isnt it really the manager's job to set the service level and then hire the employees to achieve that level? He has to do it with the cooks for sure, and we dont even see them typically. I just think things would work better if the servers were handled the same way. The manager sets the way things will be done in terms of level of service, and the employees carry that out. On another note, I think before servers get hired, they should really study how to be a good server. Its not that obvious, based on what I see out there.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
            The restaurant in the article agrees with you and they are going to try it out. Hopefully, they'll post a follow-up article evaluating the results and how customers like or dislike the experience. Experiment -> results.

            I did find your choice of management philosophies interesting. Having earned an MBA, I am interested to see if the authoritative approach you are advocating works in a customer-facing service industry like the restaurant business, which is a very low-margin industry in general. In general, collaborative environments that set basic guidelines but which allow individual employees some leeway in their interactions with clients (ostensibly to cater to their individual needs) seems prima faciae to be a better fit, but (to pardon the pun) the proof is in the pudding, is it not? :)
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
              I still think that the success of the restaurant is the responsibility of the manager. A good manager knows whats going on with service and food and pricing. He tries to balance all that to make the restaurant profitable. I would feel better about some non cash method, maybe right there in the restaurant, of assessing service, as one does in posting on YELP. Sometimes I have good suggestions, but the atmosphere isnt really great for customers to make comments. The manager can look at comments when things have quieted down and make his assessments and then deal with monetary issues with the employees. If the profits go up and the customers return- most likely its because he is doing a good job.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by khalling 8 years, 11 months ago
      I am a generous tipper as well. I was a waitress throughout college. I gave excellent service. Often there were bosses behind the scenes yelling and screaming. I absorbed that and made sure my clientele had an amazing dining experience. I still do that....irony
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 8 years, 11 months ago
    have a daughter who made her life until she found the ASIII movie to work on as a waitress. They do not live off their salary. they live off of their tips. Trust me, they know how to get those. So, if someone chooses to stiff their wait staff without good reason-do not plan on coming back to that establishment. carry on
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
      So who loses out? The restaurant. As if the restaurant's purpose was to provide good tips for the servers. I say get rid of tips and leave customers our of employee-employer negotiations .

      I resent giving "expected" tips and the entitlement mentality it encourages in the servers.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by strugatsky 8 years, 11 months ago
        However, the lower a level of payment for service (or product) you can get to, the more efficient that service becomes. I agree with you regarding the entitlement mentality - the "expected" tip should be 0 for bad service (and I do that when deserved) and as much as you want (sometimes more than 20%) for good service (and I do that too, when earned). If I inadvertently walk into a restaurant that automatically adds 20%, I walk out, never to be back there again. The owner of that restaurant in NYC, despite her proclamations of customer service, etc., is simply being dishonest - if she wants to add 20%, she should do that right on the menu, which she is required in NYC to post outside. Let the customers know what the real price is, not add "administrative" expenses after they received the bill and feel embarrassed to argue. Generally, those types of establishments have bad service (understandably), but many of NY restaurants are doing this because they simply can't get good waiters at all.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
          I still want the wage negotiations and service level to be done without me in the middle. I agree on the "administrative" fees. I dont frequent restaurants where they add 20% automatic tip. They should negotiate wages and if the total price is too high, I just wont go out to eat there...
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by LaMuse 8 years, 10 months ago
    This is such an old post that I doubt anyone will be revisiting it anytime soon; however I felt compelled to comment anyway because a few thoughts came to mind and I wanted to share them. I am about a month behind in my Gulch reading, so I am rapidly trying to read all the previous comments and get back up to current status. So, after reading all of the posts regarding tipping or not tipping, I can see that there are many pros and cons and I can appreciate all sides. My first thought was about my son, who worked as a waiter at Cracker Barrel while he was in college. He was such a conscientious worker and tried very hard to please everyone. However, his biggest gripe was people who came to eat and then lingered over coffee and pie for another 2 hours gabbing and gossiping. There is no alcohol served, so sitting at a table getting free refills of coffee does nothing to add to the value of the tab. His tips were based on cost of meal, not time spent sitting at the table, so there were some nights he had 3 or 4 tables that spent hours there and he was lucky to make $30.00 in tips for the entire evening. I guess my point of this, and I'm sorry it's a bit off track from the original premise of whether to tip or not to tip, is to say that if you are dining in a restaraunt with servers, please be aware that they do need to turn the tables and be reasonable about the time you spend at their station without spending any money. If I'm out at one of my favorite spots, and I stay for a lengthy time, I calculate that fact into my tip and add extra to allow for the lost wage that the server could have made had I not monopolized their station. On another note, I once had some workers come to my home and replace flooring with tile and new carpets. I know I paid in advance a fair price for the basic materials and labor, but these guys went above and beyond in customer service and did such a great job that I felt their value to me was justified by an extra $50.00 tip for each worker. If any of you fellow Gulchers work in any kind of service industry let me know - I tip well.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 8 years, 10 months ago
      Depending on how busy the place is, I've seen managers come out and ask those types to take their conversations elsewhere. They aren't paying for anything, they don't tip worth keeping them as customers.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by JCLanier 8 years, 11 months ago
    Blarman:
    Having begun the majority of my experience with dining in Italy, I would say that it is a whole different ball game...
    First, dining, whether at lunch (2-3 hour affair) or dinner (3 hours+) you have the right and are expected to be occupying your table for the entirety of the event. That is not so in the majority of the establishments in the U.S.

    That being said, if you are actually buying that space, service and food and have opted to "grace" a restaurant with your presence for the duration of that event, then you are treated as commander and chief of that table and as their guest.

    You are catered to and doted on and the server follows your cues... you are takative tonight, they engage in conversation. You are there for business, no friendly banter that interrupts, etc.

    The servers are professionals and take pride in their work. They all started out as apprentices and worked their way into their primary position. I can return to restaurants and find the same waiter that I had 25 years ago. Great feeling. Instead, on an average, a server in America is in a transitory position while they support themselves to achieve entirely different goals outside of the restaurant business. This shows in many ways.

    While in Italy, like many European countries, a fixed percent is always charged (usually 15%) and it is always declared on the menu. Even so you would leave a "token" amount on the table for the server, let's say $10.00 for a normal dinner, not special event or party, where you were dining in two or three and a $20 if four people and so on. (Do realize I am talking about at least the normal 4 courses plus wine).

    I have never felt "abused" in Italy for this system. Usually because I had professional service that contained pride and dignity.

    I tend to follow here what is already in place, that is, tipping a certain percent because it is expected.
    It is different here and I do tend to feel "pressured" by the tipping system. First, because in general the restaurant expects to turn the table (depending on type and fame of restaurant) either 2 or 3 times. Servers are expected to help in this process by which they too benefit. There is no way that this does not generate negative consequences and repercussions on the evening at hand.

    I can understand the frustrations of Term2. Yet there are few restaurants that would break out of
    this established system. I would prefer to have a service charge added to my bill and have the pleasure to "award" my server for making my dinner special above and beyond what is simply required of the job.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 years, 11 months ago
    The only job I had in my life that I really loved was
    a job I had in Staunton, Virginia, where I started
    working when I was 18, at a curb service restau-
    rant. I was a carhop. (Eventually I quit,because
    one of the two managers, the one who had hired
    me, kept pestering me to slow down; that ruined
    it for me; I think he was trying to destroy my
    professional pride in the job). I was paid 75
    cents an hour.(Minimum wage was then $1.60).
    But the possibility of tips was what made it
    exciting; and when a rush was on, it was won-
    erful. Sometimes I made a lot of tips, sometimes not; when a certain co-worker and
    I were on together, we used to compete in a
    friendly rivalry. It would have made the job
    so boring if the tips had been replaced by a
    flat wage. By the way, there was no such thing
    as the revolting custom of putting the tips all
    in one pot and splitting them up. Yes, I tip
    when I think the person deserves it (I ususally
    can find some reason to do so). I just despise
    people who go in and ignore everything good
    the server does. And especially if they hand
    out religious tracts as a substitute.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by nicktheitguy 8 years, 11 months ago
    I am totally for tips...that way I can reward those who provide excellent service. Those that provided the worst service will only get a penny. Most of the time I will tip 20% of the bill before tax. On buffets, I tip 10% before tax. My mother recently told me I should be tipping when I call in an order for pick-up...anyone else heard of this load of melarchy? She said that it is the wait staff that boxes it up, and since they could be earning the tips while servicing another on-site customer, they "deserve" it. Thoughts?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by kevinw 8 years, 11 months ago
    Hello blarman,
    This is an interesting article, especially since I had never even thought about an alternative to the current system. The system of tipping does seem to put the illusion of control of the level of service I receive in my hands. I think, sometimes, it is a fairly effective incentive although I have been known to let good cleavage take the place of good service (I tip much better if there is both)(let's not mention alcohol) and a male server better be good since he has nothing else to offer. Lol.

    I would welcome the competing methods since both would have their place. A large chain known for their consistently cheap, consistently edible (nothing more) food may have a difficult time attracting good management and so the customer might still influence his level of service with a tipping situation when management failed to do so. Some others, having better management, would create conditions that ensure good service without the tipping process. I would have no problem going to either place and may the better system win in the market.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by JoleneMartens1982 8 years, 11 months ago
    I have worked in the service industry most of my life and even though I rarely have the extra money, I do tip, always and well. Even if the service is terrible I will tip $2.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by vido 8 years, 11 months ago
    Before deciding whether to tip or not, one should be informed whether the server derives his income totally or partially from the tipping, or is salaried.

    Is the tip the only income of the server ? If so, the server should be paid according to the value he brings.

    Is the server already receiving a salary from his employer ? If so, tipping should not be required, as the server's salary is implicitly already included in the meal's price.

    Third case ; the server receives some kind of below-poverty level salary from the restaurant, and the restaurant tacitly counts on the customer to pay more. In that case, it's a bit hypocrite on behalf of the restaurant, since the meal price is lower than it should be if the server's pay was competitive, while the employer can still claim that the server receives a salary.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 11 months ago
      I look on this, not as hypocrisy but as giving you a partial choice. Like various businesses in Berkeley that charge a "sliding scale" (read: you decide what to pay) so as not to exclude the poor.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Ben_C 8 years, 11 months ago
    In my area (Michigan) wait people are paid below minimum wage knowing that tipping makes up the difference. When employee salaries go up the cost of the product goes up. Without tipping there is decreased incentive to hustle. The wait person is your ambassador to the kitchen. Bad food gets sent back. That said, I was in a new restaurant in New Orleans (Paladar 511 - awesome) and noted all tips are split between the enitre staff. Pros and cons with this but I suspect the staff will know who is pulling their weight on the floor and who is sloughing off. If service and food are poor the business will fold. If service and food excel the whole staff will be happy. Time will tell.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by samrigel 8 years, 11 months ago
    I tip as it is part of the culture. This is truly wrong I understand that as it is not my place to pay workers of any company. That falls to the employer. But my tips are always in cash and always at least 15% (again the culture). Also I do not like the term "a living wage". It is a subjective term not an objective term.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by RonC 8 years, 11 months ago
    If I get good service I tip generously. As a business owner I have often wondered how it is the food service industry can expect tipping to compensate their staff?

    They hire them, train them, discipline them, set hours for them, set rules, direct them on them job, provide equipment, provide finished product. By any stretch they are "Statutory Employees". But in the restaurant business the owner doesn't pay this labor cost, the tipping client does.

    In almost any other industry to have the client throw an extra 20% at you to soften your labor costs is unheard of.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
    I have always thought that the standard of service is set by the owner or manager of the restaurant, and its the job of the employees to meet that standard. I dont want to get in the middle of that negotiation. Pay the employees (all of them) what you need to in order to get the service you require. That being said, I think servers make way way too much money for what they do with this tip system. The standards of service are currently determined by the servers- depending on how much tip they think they will get and how many tables they can control. The customer and the manager are pretty much left out. I live in Las Vegas and we have buffets here. I NEVER tip at a buffet just so they can get me something to drink. I get my own food, and can just as easily get something to drink (buffets are moving towards this model now).
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo