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Question stemming from my curiosity

Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 1 month ago to Philosophy
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Today, where can someone go to simply disappear from everyone and everything. By this I mean pulling a Jeremiah Johnson or Grizzly Adams, stepping out of society completely and living off hunting and farming without TV, radio, running water, etc. A place where a person can never hear another persons voice for years or until death takes him.

Is there anyplace left in the US where someone can live like this?


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  • Posted by MikeGoodman59 9 years, 1 month ago
    Love Jeremiah Johnson ... the movie, not the politics of the lead. Johnson's mistake was following the major and the preacher. *** Answer? Alaska, off grid *** ... BUT ... that would still likely require a community, of sorts. Given that, a "collective" answer is to reinstate Constitutional sanity. Please, read this book and elect a sheriff who can, with the aid of his/her neighboring LEO's, tell the Fed to go to blazes. Then, short of having to "repel borders," the Fed will go home, as in the case of the Bundy ranch. Bundy, from what I gathered, was against protecting a tortoise that is in no way in competition with his cattle, and which the Fed is killing off, ACTIVELY! Bundy wanted to pay taxes to the County, and to have federal lands returned, and overreach stopped. Good book! Short and to the point, by Sheriff Mack who realized he'd become a brown shirt. Forward by Arpaio. Oh, pay attention to Sheriff Clarke, of Milwaukee County, and our own Sam Page of Rockingham County (NC).
    http://www.amazon.com/The-County-Sheriff...
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 1 month ago
      I live in Arizona...well acquainted with Arapio, love the man. Our State government is passing bill after bill to rein in federalism and, so far, they've done a wonderful job. The jury is still out as to whether the State Senate will pass these bills and the Governor will sign them into law.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 1 month ago
    AJ -

    Living off hunting and farming and being entirely out of the path of civilization is fine until you break a leg, have appendicitis, or get a toothache. We are all tired of feeding the beast, but I think a more realistic plan is to buy/build a house/cabin that is 20 miles outside of a town, purchase food at the local farmer's market and have access to medical help as needed.

    Alas! I too do not know 'where'. I have heard that there are such hidden places in upstate Alabama...the local dinosaur would be able to comment on that.

    Jan
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    • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 1 month ago
      Lots of parts of NC, about 20-30 miles outside of the larger cities. And lots of hospitals and colleges, too.

      But don't move here. It's getting crowded like CA did after I moved THERE, too, back in '78... :)
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  • Posted by salta 9 years, 1 month ago
    How about a boat?
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 1 month ago
      Lived on the sea for a few years, while I love the ocean (oddly enough I live in a desert now) it presents too many challenges simply to survive, namely drinkable water, no ability to grow food, limited hunting.
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      • Posted by jpellone 9 years, 1 month ago
        Well AJ, I don't normally disagree with you but on this one I must. I too spent many years at sea in the Navy and yes I agree that you don't always have potable water but those times are few and far between. Do you realize how much greenhouse space there would be on the deck of a ship like an aircraft carrier? Something that size could also raise cattle, chickens, etc.
        There are presently greenhouse barges in existence that use zero resources from shore. They use solar for power and batteries to run all of the pumps required to cycle the water through an aquaponic system which uses fish waste to fertilize the plants for food. You even grow your own fish food in the tanks. Presently they use rainwater for the most part. Granted, if you do not get rain for a while the barges would have to have a secondary water resource possibly from water desalination but it is possible.
        You would never run out of soil to grow anything because you can compost all/most of the waste created on board including animal manure as long as they don't eat any meat. You could also compost the human food waste including all wasted greens and plants after they have completed their duty to supply foods such as fruits and vegetables. As long as you allow some of the plants to go to seed such as radishes, you can always have a seed bank. Many fruits and vegetables provide seeds within them. Potatoes are their own seeds. You just have to harvest some of the seeds. Fruit trees supply food for many years.

        If the boat/ship stayed near the tropics, food could be supplied 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

        Oh yes, and for the people that like spices or sweeteners, they can all be processed right on board. Stevia is a great substitute for sugar.
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        • Posted by $ 9 years, 1 month ago
          No worries, I suppose that all depends on the size of the ship you own, no? A personal vessel wouldn't necessarily equate to a yacht let alone an aircraft carrier, cruiser, or a frigate. Making port calls would kind of defeat the purpose of what I would hope to achieve by extracting myself from mankind.


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          • Posted by jpellone 9 years, 1 month ago
            Well I am mostly thinking of a community of like minded individuals I guess. Sure, there is no way that a person or single family could handle a 1000 foot ship!!! A community of maybe a couple thousand could handle it... Sure, on 36' - 45' yacht would really have trouble raising cattle but if designed properly could at least grow crops and fish, maybe even some chickens, or rabbits. The only thing needed topside is a pilot house, the rest could be greenhouses.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 1 month ago
            "the purpose of what I would hope to achieve by extracting myself from mankind."
            I'm for everyone living his own unique dream. Mine is different. Value comes from humans specializing and freely providing their own special skills in trade with others doing likewise, all trying to improve themselves and live their own dreams. We need to find a way for large numbers of people to do that with minimal interference.

            So we need to find a way for people who want to do that go do it, trade with the rest of the world, and stay under the radar of hardcore looters.
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            • Posted by $ 9 years, 1 month ago
              Not necessarily. Certainly thats one way to view value. Value to me is my ability to do as I wish to enrich myself, either by profit or satisfaction. I do not need others to achieve those goals since profit need not necessarily be monetary.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 1 month ago
          "If the boat/ship stayed near the tropics, food could be supplied 24 hours a day, seven days a week. "
          You could take that food to a Gulch located in the arctic. Fish and food from their greenhouses are staples for them, but they want spices, sweetners, etc.
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          • Posted by jpellone 9 years, 1 month ago
            Certain spices such as thyme and parsley are very cold hardy. Stevia (sugar substitute) not so much but grow it on the boat and freeze the leaves in ice cubes to trade in the Arctic for a winter sweetener. Spices in general are about the easiest things to grow.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago
    No. I think the last person that tried that lived on Suvarov now Suwarow Atoll north end of the Cook islands for some two decades. Even then he was forceably removed at least twice. The easiest place to disappear in plain sight is in the cities. Especially if you don't need a drivers license or anything else that would put you on the roles for things like jury duty and if you use a mail drop address for everything such as taxes. To do so though I think you would have to win the lottery. If you have a bank account make it non interest paying only like a checking account. The closest I came is living on a boat and moving up and down the intercoastal waterway as much as possible. Or in a 5th wheel or similar. Currently I'm listed as a resident of one state, bank in another prepaid cell area code in another and mobile domicile in yet another and it's currently all legal. I don't see that being possible ten years from now so I'll probably just hide in the open and like Jack Reacher and use the bus. Slowly but surely the diversity program is turning into corrals and fences every way you look. But I''m on my last passport and border crossing card - see I just gave it away damn....my last drivers license...and my last give a damn.

    Living without TV and radio is easy. It's called an off switch. I do have a collection of books and movies, produce my own power and make my own water. As for the last part....there's this little bay with a great anchorage...visited by others but rarely...and great fishing... Someone builit a house on the hill and leaves their wifi on when absent. The fishing is great. Fresh yellowtail tonight!
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  • Posted by jimslag 9 years, 1 month ago
    In the US, the Rockies of Colorado up through Wyoming into Montana is great and has a lot of areas that are vacant of people. The Pacific Northwest is another. There are places in Eastern Washington and Oregon where there are no roads, some places in Northern California also. For out of the country, I like Patagonia in Chile myself, far away and not heavily populated. There are other places but you run into the drug cartels is you are not careful. If not cartels, then lots of bad things in the jungles and rivers. Some places good for lower interactions with people but it is getting harder and harder to find a no interaction place.
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 1 month ago
    AJ,
    the answer is yes if you want to live in the mountains of the north west. a fellow just showed up in town who lived for 30 years he said in the mountains and spoke to all of 2 people in that amount of time. when he returned from vietnam he didn't like what he subjected too so he left. he was not alone to do that.
    i say the northwest because that is where the big foot is and no body has found him/her yet.
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  • Posted by dukem 9 years, 1 month ago
    I have been searching for such a place for years, mostly using Sperling's Best Places as a guide since it lays out most important numbers to consider for a geographical change.
    For me, the closest to what I'm looking for, with a modicum of civilization, is St. George, Utah and environs. Check it out. Some minuses, but lots of pluses.
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  • Posted by bubah1mau 9 years, 1 month ago
    A guy named Sylvan Hart must have asked your question around 1929 when he settled on the Salmon River in Idaho and spent most of the rest of his life there from what I gather: http://archives.mtexpress.com/index2.php... .

    I personally, along with others in my Salmon River rafting group, met Hart (also called "Buckskin Bill") in 1962. As I recall, he was wearing some kind of Viking helmet (with protruding horns) he had made, and very eager to trade or sell some of the things he had fashioned by hand out of local materials. At least I suppose it can be said he was a dedicated loner who loved mountain seclusion.

    One wonders what he thought of Marilyn and the crew if they were in his vicinity during the '50s filming of River of No Return...
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  • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 1 month ago
    Honestly, this has been a topic since the "Closing of the West" in the 1890's. Until then it seemed there was always a place to be able to go and setup your own rules of societal interaction. There is nowhere on the globe any more.

    I tried the same in 1977 by moving to Arizona, but it took 20 years to learn that I was too late. In fact, in 1976, just before I moved out west as a young lad of 22, "they" had passed FLPMA, claiming federal ownership of the public lands in perpetuity for the first time in US history. But, I was enthralled with the principle of the 1872 Mining Law that one could gain private rights just through the investment of time, savvy, and sweat in the wilds of the West just locating a source of gold. Something a geologist is eminently qualified to do.

    I learned how correct the old laws were but how way too late it was during the Son of Sage Rebellion in the mid-90's when "they" absolutely shut down any attempt at States Rights in Nevada and the West. With that came the realization that the primary way is to hide in plain sight.

    The only other way (with a high price) is to stick to the principle that the feds have nothing outside of the defined powers and make the stand highly public. And take the heat (I wish I could underline that statement). That is what Cliven has done since the fine effort in the 90's with Son of Sage. I met Cliven in those days and know exactly what he is doing here 20 years later. A good man.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 1 month ago
    Short answer: the FBI and other agencies look for places like that and target the people living there. Ruby Ridge was one such. Any "Gulch" community, whether in the US or not, will have to expect such attacks and be prepared to handle them.

    If it's a place without strong existing government (such as the suggestion of mountains in South America) you have to expect that other dissident groups (drug lords and/or revolutionaries) will be hiding there too, and will target you just because you're not them.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 1 month ago
    Nope. They've all been annexed by the Federal Government via the BLM. That's why they're called "national forests".

    If you're looking for a place to build a Gulch, I'd suggest buying a small island off the coast of Costa Rica. Just don't get eaten by the dinosaurs. ;)
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 1 month ago
    I doubt there is such a place in the US, other than perhaps rural Alaska. Several of us were considering Vanuatu six months ago. I'm glad that we didn't make that decision, given the recent typhoon.
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  • Posted by DanShu 9 years, 1 month ago
    Try Alaska, ever see the show "Alaska the last Frontier?" They are not totally off the grid but pretty close. I also like "Life Below Zero" they are really out there. I'm actually envious watching them. Makes me wish I was still young.
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  • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 1 month ago
    I'm sure there is a place in the mountains but don't know where. I've often thought of doing the same thing. Sick of feeding the beast too.
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