Galt's Gulch

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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 4 months ago
    In the animal kingdom, chimps and other primates such as bonobos exhibit a high degree of intelligence. That is, relative to other animals but to the exclusion of man. Man is an animal with volition and other attributes which causes him to far exceed anything any other animal can do. I think that the use of animals, particularly chimps in various forms of entertainment gives them human-like characteristics that only exist only because of rigorous training. That causes people to identify them as having more intelligence than they actually have. However, this does not mean that we should treat them in any way except with loving care. Because they have no volition they are innocent and must always be treated as such.
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    • Posted by IndianaGary 9 years, 4 months ago
      It's called anthropomorphism and liberals have it in spades. Or, perhaps, they're simply insane.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 4 months ago
        Actually, I think that much of which is termed anthropomorphism is actually 'mammalism' and we (as usual) anthrocentric humans believe that we are the center of the universe and the other animals are either behaving randomly or imitatively. Example: experimentally, the young of many species of mammals smile when sugar is put in their mouths, frown with vinegar, and grimace with bitters. "Smiling" is something that indicates a positive experience among many mammals (as folks with dogs can attest). Similarly, bowing indicates submission almost across the board and 'initiation of play' has similar signals amongst many carnivores and omnivores (inc man).

        I thoroughly agree with Herb. I would love to see other animals 'cross the line' into sentience, but none have made it yet.

        Jan
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        • Posted by wdg3rd 9 years, 4 months ago
          Dogs don't "smile". That's a permanent expression. They don't have that kind of control of the muscles around their mouths.

          Yes, I too would like to see other species with sentience. I recommend the Uplift novels of David Brin (great SF novelist, calls himself a libertarian but it's like Bill Maher calling himself a libertarian).
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          • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 4 months ago
            Dogs have a lot of facial control and a combination of lips, eyes, and ears show a wide range of feelings. The 'submissive grin' is one of them. In some breeds, including boxers and collies, the back of the mouth can draw upwards into a big smile.

            I almost felt as if I had hit the jackpot with your Brin recommendation, but I did a little poking around and read some synopses of the Uplift books, but did not find what I was looking for. The book I read, some decades ago, was a juvenile SF book (part of a series) that involved 3 teens from the US who had passed an alien 'entrance exam' and were going to be taken offworld to be educated. One was a girl who had worked with chimps, one was a boy who did rapier reenactment and I think the third was a archetypal nerdish boy. The reason I thought that it might be the Brin books was I dimly recall a backstory bit about Earth getting points for having communicated with dolphins and chimps. Have you a clue as to which book/author I should look for?

            Jan
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            • Posted by wdg3rd 9 years, 4 months ago
              Sorry, plotline rings no bells. Most of my "juvenile" SF reading was in the sixties. I still reread Heinlein's books for kids every couple of years. Of course, a lot of what I read back then wasn't quite juvenile. Read "Anthem" at 11, "The Fountainhead" at 12 and "Atlas Shrugged" at 13. (They look at you funny when you're walking around junior high school with a big-ass book that doesn't even have pictures in it). Oh, and during that period I also read the KJV cover-to-cover and renounced religion. (I didn't actively renounce government until a quarter-century later -- in some things I can be a bit slow).
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              • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 4 months ago
                Likewise on re-reading Heinlein's young adult fiction. I think I was 13 or 14 before I found Anthem, and I was in HS before I read AS. So - I am quite lagging behind you.

                I thought I would see re the YA book I am searching for. I will keep looking. Thanks.

                Jan
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 4 months ago
    “The ascription of rights has historically been connected with the imposition of societal obligations and duties,” the judges wrote. “Needless to say, unlike human beings, chimpanzees cannot bear any legal duties, submit to societal responsibilities or be held legally accountable for their actions. In our view it is this incapability to bear any legal responsibilities and societal duties that renders it inappropriate to confer upon chimpanzees the legal rights … that have been afforded to human beings.”

    Don't believe chimps have habeus corpus rights, but this judge's derivation of rights is way off from both the Founders and individual natural rights.
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  • Posted by jpellone 9 years, 4 months ago
    I have never seen a human take a crap in their hand and then stick it in their mouth and then spit it out on the bars???
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    • Posted by Itheliving 9 years, 4 months ago
      then you have never visited Charles Manson have you?
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      • Posted by jpellone 9 years, 4 months ago
        Not even in my top 100 things to do. LOL.
        I'm sure you have heard the argument about gay marriage saying that next will be people wanting to marry their dog? Now that the left have pushed gay marriage down our throats, they are trying to humanize animals and start shoving that down our throats. Have you seen the Progressive commercial about the pig stealing the guys girlfriend?
        SICK!!!!
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 9 years, 4 months ago
    Wow, some of those qualifications which the chimp did not meet, also are not met by some of our citizens. The ability to meet social obligations and be responsible. Yep, we ave devolved as a society. We don't need a bunch of chimps on welfare. I remember when the Brits set the mink free - they ate household pets. What next broccoli? Remember, the UN is for Gaia.
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    Posted by flanap 9 years, 4 months ago
    Those who do not believe in a Creator outside of themselves with standards external to themselves which govern the universe have no standing to say that the advocates of rights of chimps, or anything at all (e.g. Rocks, atoms, etc...), be parred with humans is irrational.
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    • Posted by Itheliving 9 years, 4 months ago
      Yes, in decisions where rocks are involved the government would have to empanel a group of rocks to decide the issue. This would definitely end the pet rock people. They would have to free their rocks. And no more skipping stones across a lake. Cruel and unusual punishment.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 4 months ago
        I once had a pet rock. During that fad, I bought a polished one that came with a pair of stick-on eyes. As the years passed, the eyes fell off. Still, I would keep the polished little critter on a desk or a counter, Then one day after I moved for the umpteenth time, I realized that my pet rock had run away from home. I wondered how it did that with no eyes. Maybe it found a girlfriend and did not want to move. If it did find a girlfriend, I hope she is just as polished.
        Or she's not worthy! She's not worthy!
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