Ferguson grand jury papers full of inconsistencies - Yahoo News

Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 4 months ago to Culture
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Wow, little tiny shades of truth begin to emerge...and from AP n less...
SOURCE URL: http://news.yahoo.com/grand-jury-documents-rife-inconsistencies-223558856.html


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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 4 months ago
    I am reminded of an LE I knew who received an official reprimand for having used his baton to take out an assailant; the Pasadena PD SOP recommended behavior was that he use his gun against an attacker armed with a knife. His defense? "We were in an apartment; I might have missed."* This causes me to ask what the Ferguson PD SOP's recommended response was for someone who had been (a) already attacked and beaten by an individual, and (b) the individual was now coming back towards him.

    I think the real answer is that Wilson was afraid and was fighting for his life. I am glad that at least some of the wild allegations that have been floating around are being excluded by concrete evidence (ballistics). We do not have the truth, but now there are fewer lies. Now that Wilson has quit the police department (probably the only way he could avoid being a focal point in the future) I hope that someone picks him up for a highly paid non-LE position out of the public eye. He does not deserve the punishment he has already taken, let alone a lifetime more of it.

    Jan
    *No, the LE I knew would not have missed, but he did not feel threatened even at close quarters, and he saw a chance to take the guy out without killing him. I know this because I used to spar with the LE fellow - and he was legendary.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 4 months ago
      "I am reminded of an LE I knew who received an official reprimand for having used his baton to take out an assailant"
      He was reprimanded for an action that stopped the attacker without hurting any innocent people. That seems unfortunate. He had a high-risk job, he did it great, and still gets in trouble for it.
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  • Posted by Sergio 9 years, 4 months ago
    The laws in all 50 states have no definition of "warning shots" or "shoot to disable". Shots that do not strike the assailant are categorized as "misses". The objective of self defense is simply "to halt the attack". Not to frighten, not to impede, but to stop the perceived threat. I was not there and others who were have conflicting testimony. The grand jury had no choice but to rule as they did.

    I would like to believe that my training would have afforded a better outcome but that would have been long odds. Chances are that in that critical moment I too would have shot to put down the assailant.

    If we need to place blame upon other than the assailant then let it be upon his parents who raised him thinking because of his strength that he could steal, assault, and terrorize others.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 9 years, 4 months ago
    It is a case of ignorance by a large percentage of a race, which has been dumbed down by public schools on purpose, and fed lies by the likes of the interlopers like Sharpton who serve their own egos.
    It is what is expected from Obama, who cut his teeth on promoting racial unrest via Marxist Saul Alinskly;s methods, as a way to revolution and destruction. This is the goal of community agitators. Black parents better wake up ;and see how they and their children have and continue to be used by black power brokers, for their own power. Most blacks are killed by blacks, usually involving drugs. Want a all black police force Ferguson, hire one, and see if those officers cater to this idiocy.
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  • Posted by MagicDog 9 years, 4 months ago
    Sharpton, Jackson, Holder and others should be charged with inciting to riot. Some of the action should be called what it was " a race riot".
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    • Posted by NealS 9 years, 4 months ago
      Add any other politician to the list that commented on it too, even our president. Anyone that wasn't there does not know what happened. For most of us our opinion depends on the news we've seen or heard, and we all know how reliable the news is. The worst part is when the media holds back information, much more so than when it is all thrown out for us to ponder. It seems to be coming down to a vote rather than an intelligent opinion, and it's destroying our country and holding back race relations. Most of the demonstrators don't vote, they should not have a say if they don't even vote. Why don't they vote for a Black Police Force to protect their Black Communities'? If I were a police officer in Ferguson, I'd be looking for a relocation. Police get little respect these days, and do at their own peril, it can't be a good guy job anymore. Why support people that hate you, especially when that hate is not warranted? I was once told "Hands Up", by a police officer. What did I do? I put my hands up, I didn't attack or rush him, or even walk towards him, I just froze. A few minutes later I walked away. This is what we pay these guys to do, respect their call and you just might not get shot.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 4 months ago
      Unless they spoke on the scene just before the riot happened, it would set a bad precedent to charge incitement.

      However, all three ought to bear some civil liability to those damaged by the rioters, especially owners of burned stores.
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      • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 4 months ago
        Um, nah... you can douse a fire after it starts with the right tools or, in this case, words. Obama's speech after the verdict was read and described came across to me as the most limp-wristed, pussified response anyone could have made. Not even a strong call for calm or 'if you don't like the verdict, are you saying you don't like the Grand Jury Process of our legal system?' , which is really what a lot of this shit comes down to.... people who burn and loot cities and businesses because they don't like juries' decisions?

        That's another sign of cultural or societal decay.
        imnsho...
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
    This goes to show just how badly the black community views the police. They say what they wish had happened - not that they wish MB to have been killed, just that since it happened, they wish that it were an execution type killing. They want to believe that the white officers are racist, and are out to kill them indiscriminately. And the worst part is that the likes of Sharpton, Jackson, and Holder keep fostering those views.

    O had the opportunity to come out and tell the nation that we have to break free of these stereotypes. He failed, miserably. Like usual.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 4 months ago
    So...eye witness accounts were either wrong, tainted or revised. What a surprise. I wonder just how close Ferguson citizens came to fomenting a lynch mob.
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  • Posted by Danno 9 years, 4 months ago
    Why is this news? Eye witness testimony is unreliable. This is why forensic science developed. Blood was found in car and powder residue on Brown. So there was most likely a fight in the car. Did Brown try to grab the gun? Wilson's testimony seems consistent with forensic evidence.
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    • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 4 months ago
      Read the comments to the linked article.
      If, like "Baby" there, one's mind is made up long before they even see forensic evidence, let alone believe it, for them, forensic evidence is irrelevant to the conclusions they're going to draw.
      Read "Baby's" comments .... a very angry and probably sick person.
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  • Posted by NealS 9 years, 4 months ago
    Really good points from those willing to see what went down here. I was in fear of my life, it was not about trying to think of a way to defend myself with anything less than the Model 1911 from WWI I had in my hand and the M-16 that was slung over my shoulder. Notice I said “had” and “was”. These are the true rules of engagement when it really comes down to it, not what someone has told you to do. It just comes out, fear is fear. The battlefield today is not limited to just the areas our government admits to, it includes the areas they create as well (Chicago, Washington DC, Ferguson).

    Killing someone makes you sick to your stomach, it just does, trust me, and I had never seen anyone else that did not feel the same thing, at least not the first time. After that it gets a little easier, but it’s something that will stay with you for the rest of your life no matter what circumstances. Little things in life will constantly remind you like unsettle business.

    This whole thing could have been avoided if we hadn’t been teaching our youth to disrespect the law, disrespect the people we pay to exercise the law for us, disrespect anyone of authority or even anyone of no authority, and disrespect for a shop owner trying to scratch out a living, disrespect for one’s parents. Can we blame the parents, can we blame the criminal, can we blame our justice department, and can we blame our politicians and or even our own president? I say yes, but nothing will change until people start to realize that their personal ignorance only perpetuates this kind of reaction. Nothing will change.

    If Ferguson doesn’t want white cops, then they need to put that into their law. Hire all black cops or pass a law to let the black criminals walk all over the town doing whatever they want. After all it was only about $40 worth of cigars to help cover whatever he was doing with the pot. You don’t want to know my opinion, it would come across as very productive.

    Warning shots, it looks to me like they were all warning shots except the last ones to the head. Sometimes you have to make that kind of decision before you run out of ammo. My first shots would have been to the head, but then again I have a little more experience than the average cop.

    I’ve come to my conclusion that the demonstrators don’t want to know the truth, they just want to complain and keep this racial nonsense going. They don’t want to do for themselves what it takes to move up on their own. They want someone else to do it for them. Fortunately there are more non-demonstrators that are staying in their homes. Perhaps they need to get out in the streets and express their views. The only thing that will come out of this is destroying one young cops life, further race segregation, and further separation of people around the world. The UN’s already spreading the lies and North Korea scolding us about being racist. You gotta be xxxxing me.

    One time I was with a friend and his young son had a tantrum in a restaurant. Rather than scolding him his father had a similar tantrum in response. He always told me his son never embarrassed him again, ever. These are the lessons we’ve got to teach our youth. Respect !!!

    And thanks for letting me vent again. My sons took me to the ER around 23:30 on Thanksgiving. I was embarrassed that I was taking their time to drive me just because I couldn't get a good breath of air. Turned out I was diagnosed to have COPD and Pneumonia. Treated, drugged and sent home. It made me realize how unimportant this Ferguson thing should be to me. It also made me realize how this Ferguson thing might be effecting me. And, of course, what about Benghazi, the IRS, the NSA, the justice department, etc., etc.? Is this what I fought for and expected when I stepped forward? Maybe demonstrators should be drafted.
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 9 years, 4 months ago
    It’s a problem in the black community. The oral tradition of storytelling is still as vibrant as ever. Once a rumor starts it spreads like fire. Even as Michael’s dad stood over his son, the rumors were already flying. It didn’t help Michael’s friend never felt compelled to tell the truth, and Sharpton and Co. are certainly aren’t going to help the mom see the truth. The policeman shot her son in self-defense, in the line of duty. For whatever reason, Michael was being confrontational that day and made repetitive bad choices that led to his death.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 4 months ago
      Yes, and that everyone ho could took advantage of the situation. His father should be charged with inciting a riot, along with Sharpton, they did the equivalent of yelling "Fire" in the theater.
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      • Posted by $ Mimi 9 years, 4 months ago
        I think FOX should at least stop covering the planned protests at the malls this weekend. It’s not news, it’s promotion.
        This so-call ‘movement' should go the way of the occupy wall-street chaos. It’s over and done with.
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        • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 4 months ago
          William Randolph Hearst established the journalism principle of "If it bleeds, it leads." Like it or not, modern news media live and die on sensationalism, whether covering the story inspires people to commit unlawful acts or not. CNN is actually worse than Fox with respect to calamity fixation.
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        • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 4 months ago
          First, let the good guys thoroughly smack down thugs like those in Seattle who stopped children from singing.

          THEN it will be time to forget that these barbarians exist, until the next time we have to smack them down.
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    • Posted by NealS 9 years, 4 months ago
      It's a real problem in all communities, black or white. Al Sharpton and his likes need to be stopped. Without promoting his race agenda he would have nothing to do, no way to make a living. He should just go back to selling drugs, it would be better for race relations across the country. We pay our police offices to confront criminals so we don't have too. The Sharpton's and the likes are making it so we have to be more vigilant in protecting ourselves. Even our president and justice department are disgraceful in what they spew in false and lack of details. Now the world is starting to believe them over the truth in many aspects of how America is. Either we do something about it, educate our kids or America goes down the tubes. Just remember the other side is educating their kids too.
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  • -2
    Posted by $ hash 9 years, 4 months ago
    It's absolutely sickening to see Gulchers supporting the serial-killer (in fact, genocidal) State on this.

    Sure Brown may have stolen some cigars. Is it OK to kill him for that? He may even have traded punches with Wilson. That doesn't warrant lethal force in return either.

    Wilson emptied almost an entire clip into Brown. Many of the shots were to the head.

    Brown was unarmed and Wilson saw no evidence of a firearm on Brown. If Wilson feared for his own safety there were plenty of non-lethal shots he could have taken to immobilize Brown.

    The whole "if you mess with the police you deserve to get killed" argument is nothing but extreme Statism. The State's agents are totally free to shoot people dead at the slightest provocation, while the sheeple have to jump through hoops to obtain and carry a firearm, and you think this is OK?

    This is far from the first time the police in the police state of the USSA have used lethal force against unarmed or innocent people, and walked free thanks to the pervasiveness of the attitude that the State's agents have the right to use lethal force at the slightest suspicion / provocation.

    This is on top of their War on (some) drugs which has criminalized and imprisoned millions of perfectly innocent people, and on the basis of which the State has committed thousands of additional murders.

    It is not at all OK for agents of the State to use lethal force against unarmed civilians who don't pose a credible and immediate threat to their own lives. Given that the police are trained, equipped and paid to handle potentially dangerous confrontations means they should be held to far stricter code of conduct and have far LESS leeway in how they handle such situations as compared to how unarmed, untrained civilians might handle them, not more.

    In fact, given the absolutely terrifying levels of police overreaction and overuse of lethal force in the US, the most unbelievable part of ASP3 was when the cops show up at Galt's apartment. Just 3 or 4 cops. It made me laugh. In reality, there would have been a couple of squadrons of militarized police in riot gear and they would have shot Galt, Dagny and a handful of neighbors first and asked questions later.

    Wake up. "That time and those people are upon you".
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    • Posted by evlwhtguy 9 years, 4 months ago
      Anybody who continues the refrain....."shot an unarmed teenager" has never has his ass kicked. I got my black belt in JKD 3 years ago when I was 52 years old. It took 4 years to earn that black belt. During the yearlong "Black Belt Cycle" we sparred every week and I got my ass kicked on average once a month. Here is a news flash for all of those that have never been in a fight....we are all armed. Especially when you consider the youth and size of Brown and the age of the officer who was over 50 himself. Brown was not shot for stealing cigarillos, The officer did not even know about the theft at the time. The shooting occurred because he made an unprovoked physical assault on the officer during which he tried to get his firearm. The firearm went off in the car and Brown thought better of it and decided to escape after the gun went off in the car. The officer then ordered him to stop and prepared to arrest him for assault on a law officer. He then charged the officer. This is a clear reason to shoot him. Especially in consideration of the earlier assault. I would like for you to experience the exhaustion and panic of a situation like this before making blasé' statements like "there were plenty of non-lethal shots he could have taken to immobilize Brown" Have you ever even fired a pistol? Have you ever had your ass whipped? I have, let me tell you, after having you ass whipped like happened to the officer in the car, you don't want it to happen again. Actually based on the autopsy, the officer did in fact fire shots that should have immobilized Brown before the final fatal shot which occurred in the top of the head and would have "Dropped" him.

      I, like you are not excited about the militarization of the police in America, but this is not a case to hang your hat on. Brown was a worthless piece of shit that was going to cost society more and more money over time. He was created by a welfare system that encourages illegitimate birth and fatherlessness and mollycoddles minor criminals. All of which encourages hyper masculinity and hopelessness in young men. .
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      • Posted by $ hash 9 years, 4 months ago
        "He was created by a welfare system that encourages illegitimate birth and fatherlessness and mollycoddles minor criminals. All of which encourages hyper masculinity and hopelessness in young men."

        All of which then is used to justify the militarization of the police and the overuse of lethal force.

        So we have one problem created by the State (cultural decay leading to violent / hopeless youth) being used to set the stage for complete totalitarianism (militarization of police and overuse of lethal force).

        Both the problems are created by the State and need to be opposed vigorously. The second assault on individual liberties is not justified on the basis of the first.
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        • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 4 months ago
          Agreed. And the second assault was committed by Brown, not Wilson.
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          • Posted by evlwhtguy 9 years, 4 months ago
            JDG my comment exactly, but you beat me to it. Just because an agent of government busts a cap on someone.....doesn't mean it wasn't justified.

            Let me reiterate my agreement though with your point....IE: that the state creates a problem and then demands more power to deal with it. This is just not the case to use to use to make your argument. I submit to you that the officer in this case is more akin to the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke, trying to protect the citizenry in his town from the negative results of a rising tide of central government actions.
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        • Posted by livefree-NH 9 years, 4 months ago
          So then, where does the fickle finger of blame end up? The officer followed policy, so he was not indicted. The policy was made by the town (the state) so there is no culpability, no one to go after when things go wrong, and the trail goes cold there. If the same thing happens again, the same thing will happen again.

          Who loses: the dead 'aspiring rapper' du jour and this young cop both lose.

          Who wins: no one, really, maybe Sharpton and the pilot fish, but really, no one comes out ahead.

          How can it be made better?
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    • Posted by Kerryo 9 years, 4 months ago
      I have also said for many years that using the term "unarmed" is ridiculous. Fists are weapons as are elbows, feet, and even your head. Wake up.

      And to suggest that this teenager was killed because he stole a few cigars is irresponsible. He wasn't stealing cigars when he was killed, he was attacking a police officer.

      To accuse us of supporting the state because you have some agenda is just as bad as saying the teenager was killed because he was black.

      What I support is safe communities and police officers contribute to that safety at a risk to their own safety. I'm thankful to them for that. But we are also responsible by not making excuses for those individuals who threaten our safety. We need to say that A is A. I don't think anyone here is holding up the state as some bastion of perfection. But when we say things like "no one should be shot for stealing cigars" then we are not even talking about this case. Lest we forget that he also strong-armed the store owner as well. I'm sure he felt just as threatened by the same unarmed teenager. Blaming the state is displacing responsibility from those who choose to threaten someone's life because they can, or loot and burn because they're angry and placing it on a system that the community controls (or should control).

      I'm getting weary of the Ferguson topic because we are trying to attribute complex social issues to a split second decision made by a man who had reason to believe his life was being threatened and acted to preserve it the best way he could. We aren't defending the state when we say he shouldn't be indicted, we are defending every person who has, or may in the future, feel the need to defend his or her life.
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    • Posted by frodo_b 9 years, 4 months ago
      Let me state first and foremost that I am not a supporter of the State, so it pains me that I seem to be coming down on the side of the State in this matter.

      Also, I was not there so all I can go on is the information that has been reported. From what I understand, Brown wasn't shot until after he stopped running away and charged the cop.

      That's the deal breaker for me. Everyone, even a cop, has a right to defend their life, using deadly force if necessary. Did the cop really fear for his life? I don't know but I can see he how he could have. Big guy who just beat you up is now charging at you *after you've pointed your gun at him*. I can easily see how one would fear for one's life in that situation.

      And as long as the last shot was the one that killed Brown, I'm not going to second guess why he shot so many times. You keep on shooting until the person's dead.

      Seriously though, why all the protest about what happened in Ferguson? There are dozens of cut and dry cases of murder by cop every year that are worthy of rioting (and maybe even public lynchings) but they go mostly unnoticed. It reminds me of the Trevon Martin matter. It's a conspicuously repeating theme.

      I suspect that the reason these cases make the news is that they promote squabbling over trivial and/or controversial details. You don't want the conversation to be exclusively on the increase of the police state and militarization of the leo's as that might raise some uncomfortable questions.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 4 months ago
      I do not accept the notion that we live in a serial-killer genocidal state. The territory ISIS controls? Yeah, that would be one of those.
      If someone way bigger than me punched me in the face and kept coming at me, well, I have a permit.
      I'd aim for center upper torso mass like I've been annually trained to do for 21 years plus more with semi-retired armed jobs.
      Trainers have deliberately made me tired so I could see myself shoot sloppy. Glad no one busted me in the head.
      I do not care an attacker is white, black or purple. I'm blowing him away. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
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      • Posted by $ hash 9 years, 4 months ago
        "I do not accept the notion that we live in a serial-killer genocidal state."

        Even though the State has had a decades long policy of routinely using lethal force against and imprisoning peaceful, innocent people who have committed no actual crime, under the umbrella of the War on (Some) Drugs?

        That's just one example. There are many more.

        Sticking with this for a moment though...

        The US has the largest prison population in the world, and the second-highest per-capita incarceration rate.

        People convicted of two broad categories of nonviolent crimes -- drugs and immigration -- make up over 60 percent of the U.S. prison population.

        21% of prisoners in the USSA are sexually coerced during their incarceration.

        Thus a rough calculation reveals that the State is responsible for sexual assault (and potentially life-threatening disease transmission
        as a result) on 3 Million (approx. current prison population) x 60% x 20% or about 360,000 innocent, nonviolent people. That's quite apart from the wrongful imprisonment of over 1.5 million people.

        I think even ISIS would be hard pressed to compete with those numbers.

        And that's just looking at one aspect of the USSA police state, not even accounting for all the other ways the State kills people and destroys their lives, which are too numerous to get into, and some of whose hidden genocidal agendas take more detailed analysis to reveal and calculate the human costs of.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 4 months ago
          @hash I agree with all your criticisms of the criminal justice system, but they do not affect the facts in this case. My understanding was Brown attacked the officer. Half the bullets the officer fired missed. He didn't have the option of shooting Brown in the leg to immobilize him. He just shot to protect his own life from someone attacking him.

          I completely agree with the broad policing problems. Brown didn't *deserve* to die. The officer had a right to fire in self-defense. If the police officer is a good person, he hates living with having killed someone in split-second decision.

          It seems like people hoped this case would be an example of police abuse and would lead to reforms. The evidence showed it was *not* a case of abuse, but people still hoped it would somehow lead to reforms.
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        • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 4 months ago
          Why am I thinking apples and oranges?
          After I last posted I heard on Fox News that Brown's blood trail matches Wilson and supportive witnesses said--they being black.
          There's something that's consistent.
          I'm a retired Alabama Corrections officer (aka prison guard) who saw a lot of things that were not fair.
          I worked at a maximum security prison that was really rough just after it opened during the 80s.
          Despite that, I still do not accept that the USA is a serial-killer genocidal state.
          Maybe it will become that if Marxists take over. That's happened to other countries since 1917.
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    • Posted by $ Mimi 9 years, 4 months ago

      The video of Brown stealing the cigars was leaked to suppress the narrative that Michael Brown was a ‘gentle giant’ liked by all and was on his way to college before an evil racist cop shot him in the back. Some reports had even claimed he won a scholarship. Far from the truth, Brown wasn’t working, like to smoke weed, and as we learned from viewing the video we may add: psychically confrontational to those who stood in his way. The narrative before the release of the vid suggested Brown was executed for not getting on the sidewalk when he was told to. The video has nothing to do with whether or not Brown deserved to be shot. Nobody said it did.
      Since witnesses for the grand jury backed up the story of the officer’s we have learned that Michael Brown held his hand down the front of his pants like he may have had a gun while continuing to approach the officer who was yelling at him to get on the ground.Officer Wilson tried repeatedly to shoot Brown in a way that would disable him, and NOT KILL HIM, but Brown wouldn’t stop coming. This is an open and shut case of a shooting of a potentially life-threatening suspect. Thee isn’t any room for idealism here. The facts are loud. Stop being creative with the truth. because there are real situations of police-brutality that need to be taken seriously. This story ain’t it.
      +1 for me.
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      • Posted by khalling 9 years, 4 months ago
        1. he had a lengthy juvenile record, including an arrest for 2nd degree murder,
        2. his mother, who did not raise him, has been accused of stealing merchandise and money from his grandmother (who did raise him) based on his name.
        3. there is a picture going around (no independent confirmation where he is sitting at a table with a a roll of greenbacks in his mouth and holding a firearm. certainly within his right to do so-but hardly gives off the image of "gentle giant"
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        • Posted by khalling 9 years, 4 months ago
          update: I can only find left wing blogs reporting that the picture is a fake. it would be nice if real reporting would actually happen..
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          • Posted by $ Mimi 9 years, 4 months ago
            I knew the picture was fake. I don’t know anything about the juvenile record, and the story of his mother stealing money and merchandise is still an iffy story to me. None of it matters, because it’s never been a question if he was worthy to die or his parents earned their suffering, it has always been a question if an unarmed man posed enough threat for a policeman to shoot him dead in the line of duty. The facts say --yes.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 4 months ago
      Horse hockey.

      Yes, we live in a State where police often use excessive force, and where even those who commit robbery and rape get away with it because they have badges.

      But this was not one of those cases.

      If we're going to take videos to use as evidence against bad cops (and we should!), then when the video and other evidence shows that the cops were right, it behooves us to shut up and accept that fact if we want to be taken seriously.
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 4 months ago
      With as much scrutiny and pressure applied here, it is hard to believe anything but the evidence did not support an adequate case against Wilson to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

      Was Wilson threatened?...probably.
      Did he need to use a gun?...maybe, Brown was big, and why should he defend himself in a manner to limit harm to Brown?
      Did he overdo it? Probably. Maybe he was scared and shouldn't be a cop.

      There may be a predisposition of police to pursue black people. There is clearly an overwhelming majority of crimes committed by black people as a percentage (I do not assert race is a root cause). Is this behavior simple pattern matching humans are so good at, or is it a plan? I do not believe the police are racists as a group, surely as individuals some are.

      Will we ever know what really happened there? ...no.
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      • -1
        Posted by $ hash 9 years, 4 months ago
        If a civilian had shot Brown under identical circumstances, (s)he would go to trial. Self-defense would have to be argued in court. The very different ways in which LEOs and civilians are treated by the USSA "justice system" is a manifestation of the idea that the State's agents are basically above the law. A different law applies to them, and a different one to civilians. That is why LEOs are so trigger-happy - they know they are protected by the "State agent" exemptions to normal laws, even if they use excessive force or lethal force without cause.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 4 months ago
          In this case not true... and civilians often do not have to argue in court about self defense....unless evidence leans against it. If anything I think having a badge heavily worked against Wilson in this case, but the evidence was overwhelmingly in favor of his side of the story..
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          • Posted by $ hash 9 years, 4 months ago
            From http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fergu...

            <quote>
            According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.
            </quote>

            <quote>
            Cases involving police shootings, however, appear to be an exception.
            </quote>

            <quote>
            A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that “police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings” in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries haven’t indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment. Separate research by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson has found that officers are rarely charged in on-duty killings, although it didn’t look at grand jury indictments specifically.
            </quote>

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        • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 4 months ago
          Maybe this may be an argument to reduce the civilian cases, not to belabor this one.

          I am much more concerned about LEOs flagrantly violating the speed limit, and bullying people than the far more limited cases of them being individually "trigger happy". Further, departments buying military equipment is similarly worrisome, because it demonstrates a general fear of and need to control the population.

          There is little evidence of an epidemic or systemic plot encouraging shooting certain types of people. Separately, more times than not (this one excluded) it saves tax payer money to put down a felon, rather than feeding, caring, educating, petting, grooming them for years...and the inevitable repetition...More times than not the guy is guilty. Ruby Ridge excluded, which is clearly not an example of being trigger happy (root cause), but of being a bully.
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