Suggestion: after a month, you must become a producer or leave the Gulch.

Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 3 months ago to The Gulch: General
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It would be beneficial for a newcomer to have some time to determine if they want to be in the Gulch, but in order to stay, they should be willing to pay the yearly fee.
I would like to hear if this is a good idea or not, and why


All Comments

  • Posted by LaMuse 9 years, 2 months ago
    I have been a lurker for about a year, maybe a little longer. I don't remember how I came across this site, but I find it fascinating and decided to subscribe to have the daily postings sent to me. I think I remember a long time ago that in order to fully participate, one had to either pay or submit a certain number of comments. Since I am very shy about posting, I felt like I would be more effective as a contributor if I had to work harder for the privilege of being a producer, by thinking, researching, and putting my thoughts out there. Once I have accomplished that, I will be glad to send $$. I just know that for me, I prefer the incentive of having to be a more active member.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Purpose of the dictionary, at least those printed before PC, is to assist imparting accurate information. Otherwise you end up with words like decimate which means kill one tenth somehow changing to mean slaughtering everything in sight. Or unalienable and inalienable being used interchangeably. What need of handcuffs if you can chain the words?




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  • Posted by NealS 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not really sure on the conversion rate, but one couple that borrowed them actually told me they realize they are more conservative than they thought they were. I did convert my 2 boys, who thought they were"democrats" because they though we were a democratic country. Totally ignorant on politics, just no time for it trying to live. At least they'll vote in our favor in the future after we discussed it.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not getting in the middle of that discussion. I only stated it to light a match and watch the burn rate of the explosion. On the other hand if you read the Constitution no where does it ban women from being drafted. Only gives age requirements for men.Reason for that was understood in those times. Cannon Fodder went to war and Baby Factories stayed home and produced the next generation of Cannon Fodder. Sure enough by the time Kuwait rolled around the mothers of that generations soldiers were among the first flag wavers. For a while. Most had never heard of the Fish Cheer. I'll have to do a piece on conscription one of these days. I was Infantry the Queen of Battle, The King of Battle is the Artillery. In my case they always missed. Who owns my body? I think it's the IRS.

    Only three things in life are certain and all have a common factor. Birth, Life, and Death. One per customer.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Old Testament and a follow on from it's predecessor Judaism and it's successors the New Testament and the Koran. Given as a historical background for much of the world who are or claim to be People Of The Book. The ninth in size and last in that thread to use a modern phrase of monotheistic religion the Bahai's shy away from either word and it's usage. Those who don't understand the past are doomed to repeat it's failures. The failure is in false translations. A new example of that would be balanced budget with a surplus. Sure enough that twisted sentence doomed the next generation to witness yet another failure. Found that out by asking a Minister an old high school friend. Unlike me he can do chapter and verse. He also pointed out that some of the permissables such as stoning adulterous wives no longer exists in part of the world but is alive and well in other parts.
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  • Posted by BobFreeman 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    RE: "Why is it only the woman's right to choose?"

    --Because it's her body in which the growth is happening.

    Who owns your body? You or the State, the MDeities?
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  • Posted by BobFreeman 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    RE: "god gave to the State the right to take human life in defense of the nation and....a number of other permissables.... "

    Is that your opinion, or quoting someone else, ? If 'tis yours, what causes you to believe that god gave to the State the right to take human life in defense of the nation and....a number of other permissables.... ?
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  • Posted by BobFreeman 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Neal, what's your success rate on conversion using those Atlas DVD's? 'I loan them out to people I want to convert...."

    Our conclusions after driving quite a distance to see opening night of each part was that they'd greatly disappoint anyone familiar with the book & cause those unfamiliar with the book to run away in shocked horror.
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  • Posted by TeresaW 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    (disclaimer: just off a 12hr night shift. short on brain cells) I believe you will find among these numerous responses that, yes it does count for something. I lurked for 2 years before testing the waters & throwing my opinion into the ring - recently.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 2 months ago
    I really enjoy having many of the non-dollar-mark
    participants in this online neighborhood, so I would
    vote NO to your question, Mamaemma. . I wanted
    to support the Gulch and the movie, but I'm retired
    and comfortable. . some must pinch every penny
    and I want them here, too!!! -- j

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  • Posted by sumitch 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Does all this discussion fall in any way to the "I will not allow anyone the right to my product without my permission or without being paid for it and they may not modify it without my permission in either case?
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  • Posted by sumitch 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Doesn't buying the three donations to the movie count for anything? Doesn't the wish to join the conversation alone count for anything?
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    suiI looked at the cost which about the same as I pay for daily enhanced local on and off shore weather and ponied up. In pre Bush Obama value it's about $2 a month. Well worth it. But I had to check the budget even for the amount and then decided on monthly.b

    OK the hard one abortion.

    The first two trimesters is a fetus. At some point it becomes developed enough to be he or she and at another point if a preemy has a better than fifty fifty chance of living if delivered and subsequently living a productive life. Fetus becomes Viable. At that point I draw the line because viable means the developing infant, unable to care for itself, is a citizen of the country and like any citizen deserves protection - cannot be executed without due process. At that point taking the life of the citizen as with any citizen is different than fetal abortion. Where ever that line is drawn. If not protected by the civil rights we, or at least we used to, enjoy it's straight up murder. End of conversation.

    thou shall not commit murder is the proper quote. Not thou shalt not kill. "To paraphrase ....god gave to the State the right to take human life in defense of the nation and....a number of other permissables.... Absent that sanction it's a crime. I stray into religion there but most monotheistic religions are big on protecting children.

    That is my own opinion after much thought and application of a moral philosophy and the application was more the product of reason and application of the entire Constitution than, for example religious teachings.

    What I find particularly barbaric is killing the new citizen at the moment, the second of birth and in a particularly brutal way which makes the reported Chinese use of a soft spot needle of formaldehyde far more acceptable.

    To the point once the initial line of viable was crossed the so called late term abortion, absent any acceptable medical reason which does not include fitting into a prom dress, should garner the doer's family with a bill for the bullet.

    Bluntly put. Works for me it's not everyone's solution nor should it be.

    The remainder of the reasoning is fairly common but I also help support two orphanages in my present community and pay education tuition for two preparatory students and one university student.

    To the extent I am able to do so.

    Your answer for your own self cannot come from anywhere but your own evaluation and your own morals, values, and standards. No one else can do it for you. Not a village and certainly not a government. From individual free choice.

    Whatever your belief system from wherever it is derived Moral Philosophy properly applied will serve to support that which is valid or cause change that which isn't. Instead of follow the leader you become your own leader.

    One last comment. Why is it only the woman's right to choose? And if so why should the man pay the costs? Difference between a true relationship or marriage or what term you use and a momentary convenient excuse. Some one else can rocket science that question.

    End of opinion on a difficult subject.



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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 3 months ago
    The day it happens, I'll simply start an alternative forum on yahoo or google. What value I see here comes from the posters, and they'd still be there, too.

    Another reason I hesitate to pay is that every week or so, somebody proposes to tighten the rules in a way that would force me out. I don't need that. Both official Objectivism and libertarian clubs do too much of that already, which is probably why they aren't growing. This movement needs "big tent" forums, and for now this is the best. Let's try to keep it that way.
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Topics are indeed like kaleidoscopes in any group of lively,intelligent and motivated people. Good luck to your wife with the bead enterprise. She could sell them on eBay or etsy (or here, once Scott sets up our marketplace!).
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 3 months ago
    There should be incentives to become a paying member as well as dis-incentives for not doing so. I think a better idea is that non-payers be limited in number of posts/period allowed and possibly limits on comments. I as well don't think non-payers should accumulate points.

    I've noticed that some of the problems from non-payers has been the numbers of non-Objectivist postings. I don't look at the site as a news summary site, though I appreciate those posts of news items that relate negatively or positively to Objectivist thinking. I've also noticed a comment 'bombing' from those trying to drive their point totals up.

    I don't agree with a pay to stay, but I like incentive/dis-incentives.
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I love the Investor analogy to being a Producer... it fits the purpose (for me) of being a Producer - an investment in my community, one that has paid rich and continuous dividends!
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 9 years, 3 months ago
    If I had the extra money available I would be a Producer, but food, guns, and ammo plus paying normal bills is enough for me at this time. Some day we will have a Midas Mulligan join Galt's Gulch maybe then we could talk about contributions.
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